Lorenzo Snow, Friday, Sep 9, 1898

-- Friday, Sep 9, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

At 10 a.m. all of the Apostles met in their room. Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, Anthon H. Lurid, Mattbias F. Cowley and Abraham O. Woodruff, President Lorenzo Snow presiding. Singing. Prayer by Francis M. Lyman. Singing. Prest. Lorenzo Snow made a short talk and asked Elders Geo. Q. Cannon and J. F. Smith to make a brief statement of the financial condition of the Church, which they did.

On motion of Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow was sustained as President of the Twelve. On motion of John Henry Smith, Geo. Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith were returned to their places in the Council of the Apostles, according to ordination.

[On] motion of John Henry Smith The Council of Apostles were declaired the presiding Quorum of the church.

President W. Woodruffs desk was given to his son. Geo. Q. Cannon and Jos. F. Smith retain theirs. The Desk in the Apostles room was given to Prest. Lorenzo Snow. Fifty dollars a month was [given] to each of Bro. Wilford Woodruff's Widows on my motion.

We adjourned to meet at the President's office at 10 a.m. on Saturday. Joseph F. Smith gave the Benediction.

I went up to the Lagoon with some of the Delegates to the Republican Convention.

Charles S. Zane was nominated for Supreme Judge. Alma Eldredge for Representative to Congress. (1)


-- Sep 9, 1898
A meeting of the Apostles was held at 10 o'clock this morning in the Temple; all present, including Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith. These two brethren, by unanimous vote of the Council of the Twelve (now presiding over the Church in lieu of the First Presidency just dissolved) were received back as members of that body, and took their seats in the Council according to their order of ordination, with President Lorenzo Snow presiding. President Snow, by the action of the Council, was placed in charge of all Church affairs until the First Presidency should again be organized. Brothers Cannon and Smith were presented with the desks they had occupied in the President's Office, and Bro[ther]. A[braham]. O[wen]. Woodruff was presented with the desk that his deceased father had occupied, and they were authorized to take them away from the office. A new desk was purchased for the use of President Snow.

At the above meeting, President Snow spoke, referring solemnly to the absence of Pres[ident]. [Wilford] Woodruff, whose death had disorganized the first quorum of the Church. He suggested the possible presence with them on this occasion of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and other departed leaders, and spoke of the great responsibility which had now fallen upon the Quorum of the Twelve. He felt thankful beyond expression for the union that existed in the Council of the Apostles, and he believed, and in fact knew, that by each one laboring unselfishly for the cause of Zion, their labors would be crowned with success, and they would triumph. He exhorted the brethren to be charitable to each other, and to accept their new duties and responsibilities in all humility as servants of the Lord Jesus Christ. He offered to vacate his position as President of the Twelve, and thus give place to any one else who might be the unanimous choice of the Council.

Jos[eph]. F. Smith moved, and several of the brethren seconded and it was voted heartily and unanimously that Lorenzo Snow be sustained in his position as President of the Council of the Twelve Apostles.

Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon spoke briefly but feelingly of the present happy state of love and confidence in the Council, in contrast with past embarrassments, and expressed hope and faith of an honorable and happy outcome through a continuance of the love and union alluded to by President Snow. He invoked the blessing of the Lord on the President and the Council, to enable them to safely bear off the work of God.

Brothers Cannon and Smith were requested, by vote of the Council, to furnish a report showing the condition of the Church's finances.

The Council, by unanimous action, then accepted the responsibilities of the Presidency of the Church.

Before dismissing it was voted that the widows of President Woodruff receive $50 a month, each, until further orders.

The Council then adjourned.

Twelve met in Temple at 10 a.m. 14 Apostles present. Bro[ther] Geo[rge] Q. C[annon]. & Jos[eph] F. S[mith]. received back into the Quorum. Pres[ident] Geo[rge] Q. C[annon]. & Jos[eph] F. S[mith]. to give Council statement of present resources and liabilities. God be thanked that Frank Cannon has returned from east where he was sent by presidency to borrow 1.500000 dollars One million five hundred thousand dollars. The present Presidency are not altogether certain that they want him to be the agent of the church. After dismissing talk began by Bro[ther]. H[eber]. J. Grant about my preceeding Jos[eph] F. S[mith]. in the Quorum. He thought it wrong and was surprised to see us take our seats, with me between Geo[rge]. Q. C[annon]. & Jos[eph] F. S[mith]. I said, I am willing to take any place in the quorum, never felt I was fit to be an apostle; ready to follow Bro[ther]. Joseph will do just as the Lord wants: Said that, I submitted this matter to father one day and he said, rather severely: "It is just right the way it is, and you let it alone." I never had courage to tackle the question again; still, I am of the opinion that when a man is ordained an apostle and seeks to magnify that office no new man can rank him in being set apart to fill a vacancy in the Quorum of the Twelve. I am anxious for God through my brethren to decide this question and I y[ie]ld my views to theirs with all my heart. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Journal History; Brigham Young Jr., Diary

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Tuesday, Sep 6, 1898

-- Tuesday, Sep 6, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

I was sent for by President Lorenzo Snow to go to his room in the Temple.

He said he wanted me to run for U.S. Senator.

He also told me he would not take hold of affairs until after the funeral of Prest. Wilford Woodruff. He said he thought the church owed three millions of dollars. He also said he did not agree with Prest. Geo. Q. Cannon's business methods. He said the load seemed more than he could carry.

Heber J. Grant, Geo. T. Odell, Geo. Rommney, Chas. Burton, Wm. W. Riter, and Attorney J. Moyle of Coop. W. & M. Co. met with John W. Cannon and talked over a matter pertaining to Montpelier branch. (1)


-- Sep 7, 1898
The Council of the Apostles, Lorenzo Snow presiding, in answer to a telegram from Elder D[aniel]. D. McArthur, President of St. George [Utah] Stake, inquiring if it would be agreeable to the Council for the Saints of that Stake to hold memorial services in honor of the deceased President, authorized the transmission of a telegram, which was subsequently sent, stating that it would be very agreeable to them for the Saints of the St. George Stake to hold memorial services as proposed. This suggested the idea that it might be well for other Stakes, whose leading authorities might not be able to attend the funeral, to hold memorial services, and a telegram signed by President Lorenzo Snow, was sent to the Presidents of distant Stakes, suggesting to them that in case they should not be able to attend the President's funeral, it would be a very proper and appropriate thing for them to hold memorial services in their respective Stakes.

Had conversation with brethren on present situation: All who express themselves, some of the best men among us cannot entertain the idea to have a continuation of our present financial policy. God help us to arrange all in the fear of the Lord. Suggested to Pres[ident]. [Lorenzo] Snow that the apostles resume circle prayer at once and get ourselves in harmony with the spirit of God. I fear that there is division in our sentiments. Father give us unity in this one day of trial is my prayer. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Journal History; Brigham Young Jr., Diary

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, 1898. September 2

-- 1898. September 2
(Lorenzo Snow) : Lorenzo Snow, who had been president of the Quorum of the Twelve for nine years and president of the Salt Lake Temple for five, was informed of the death of President Wilford Woodruff. He immediately went to the Salt Lake Temple, donned his robes, and began a long session of prayer in the Holy of Holies. (1)


-- Sep 2, 1898
Death of Wilford Woodruff, only Utah church president to die outside Utah (in San Francisco, California, at the home of non-Mormon Isaac Trumbo); buried in Salt Lake City. Lorenzo Snow has a vision in the Salt Lake Temple where Jesus Christ instructs him to organize a First Presidency. A new First Presidency is organized eleven days later. Each of the previous three times a church president had died it had taken from twenty months to over three years to organize a new First Presidency. Apostle Brigham Young Jr. writes I his journal: "Pres Woodruff has passed away far from home and in the house of one I cannot believe to be an honest man." (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Van Wagoner, Richard and Walker, Steven C., A Book of Mormons, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - On This Day in Mormon History, http://onthisdayinmormonhistory.blogspot.com

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Sep 2, 1898; Friday

-- Sep 2, 1898; Friday
President Wilford Woodruff died at San Francisco [California] at 6:40 A.M. today. He slept peacefully all night, and passed away without movement. A telegram to this effect was received at the President's Office this morning. Pres[ident]. [Joseph F.] Smith at once notified the Apostles, most of whom were absent from the city, and requested their presence here at the earliest possible moment; Geo[rge]. Teasdale at Nephi [Utah]; John Henry Smith at Rexburg [Idaho]; M[atthias]. F. Cowley at Preston [Idaho]; A[nthon]. H. Lund at Ephraim [Utah]; M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill at Logan [Utah]; were informed by letter of President Woodruff's death, and Franklin D. Richards, at Baker City [Oregon], A[braham]. O[wen]. Woodruff at Cardston [Alberta, Canada], John W. Taylor at Denver [Colorado], and F[rancis]. M. Lyman at Kanab [Utah], were summoned home by telegram. Pres[ident]. Lorenzo Snow received the word at Brigham City [Utah]. "Pres[ident]. Woodruff died to-day", was the message cabled by Pres[ident]. Smith to the Presidency of the European Mission at Liverpool [England]. The following telegram was received from Pres[ident]. [George Q.] Cannon this evening: "We start to-night; will reach Ogden [Utah] Sunday morning, 6:45 Mountain time. Secure transit for funeral car over Rio Grande Western R[ail]. R[oad]. from Ogden to Salt Lake City and return. Have Joseph E. Taylor (undertaker) meet us at depot". ...

President Woodruff died at the home of Col[onel]. Isaac Trumbo, whose guest he was while in San Francisco. He breathed his last surrounded by every comfort that loving hands could provide. His wife Emma was with him, as were Pres[iden]t. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon, Bishop H[iram]. B. Clawson and their wives, who were sojourning in the same hospitable home. The President had suffered occasionally from asthma and from kidney and bladder troubles, but when he left for the coast on the 13th of August, he was well and

cheerful, and in fact remarked to a friend, "I wish Pres[iden]t. Cannon was as well as I am". At a dinner given in his honor at the rooms of the Bohemian Club of San Francisco, a few evenings before his death, and of which no man under eighty was permitted to partake, Pres[ident]. Woodruff, though in his 92nd year, was voted the smartest of the party. The day before he died he was talking of going out fishing. Thursday night, September 1st, he complained of feeling ill, and Dr. Winslow Anderson, his physician, after a consultation with Drs. McNutt and Buckley, decided that there was little hope that he would see another day. He passed away peacefully at early dawn. [First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes]

Section 2. The Presidency of Lorenzo Snow (1)


-- 1898. September 2
(Lorenzo Snow) A granddaughter later related his account: "It was right here that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to me at the time of the death of President Woodruff. He instructed me to go right ahead and reorganize the First Presidency of the Church at once and not wait as had been done after the death of the previous presidents, and that I was to succeed President Woodruff…. He stood right here, about three feet above the floor. It looked as though he stood on a plate of solid gold. … I want you to remember that this is the testimony of your grandfather, that he told you with his own lips that he actually saw the Savior, here in the temple, and talked with him face to face." (2)

Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Van Wagoner, Richard and Walker, Steven C., A Book of Mormons, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Jul 14, 1898; Thursday

-- Jul 14, 1898; Thursday
Meeting of the First Presidency and Apostles at the Salt Lake Temple. Present: Pres[iden]ts. Wilford Woodruff, Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon, Jos[eph]. F. Smith, and Lorenzo Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, Brigham Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, Geo[rge]. Teasdale,

H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, A[nthon]. H. Lund, M[atthias]. F. Cowley, and A[braham]. O. Woodruff (all the Apostles present except John W. Taylor, who is on a mission in Colorado). The Apostles were also together yesterday, it being their regular Quarterly meeting, and to-day they partook of the sacrament, it being their fast day.

Elder Lund remarked that he omitted to state at the last meeting that there was no publication in the Turkish Mission. It was thought that Bro[ther]. [Ferdinand F.] Hintze might be able to print and publish some work, if he had the necessary means--about $400. Bro[ther]. Lund was authorized to see Bro[ther]. [Leon] Sarkis, the Armenian about returning to his native land as a missionary, in company with Jos[eph]. W. Booth, who is to leave shortly.

Pres[ident]. Cannon remarked that there were some features of our missionary labors that ought to be considered. He had learned this morning that the fund recently set apart for missionary purposes would soon be exhausted, and he had felt for some time that a committee of the Twelve Apostles should be appointed to inquire into our missionary operations, to see if the number of missionaries could not be reduced, without materially affecting the progress of the work. He had taken an interest in getting up the form now used by Conference Presidents in reporting the labors and ability of missionaries, and yet felt very much disappointed over the general capacity as missionaries after being in the field for two or three years, as reported by their Presidents. In too many instances incapable and unsuitable men had been sent out at a cost to themselves as well as to the Church. He favored sending fewer and more competent men, and thought the brethren having in hand the calling if missionaries should give this matter careful attention.

President Smith remarked that there was a better class of men to draw from to-day than ever before for missionaries, but still what President Cannon had said was, he was sorry to say, too true. The solution, however, was found in the fact that so many Elders were called at the present time as compared to former times in the Church.

Pres[ident]. Cannon presented the following motion, which was carried: "I move that a committee of Apostles be appointed to investigate into the results of the various missions, and ascertain as nearly as they can the cost of sending and returning Elders, the amount expended by toward their own sustenance while in their fields of labor, and the number of converts made". It was understood that the Presidency would appoint the committee. ...

Pres[ident]. Cannon was administered to by the brethren, Elder Lyman being mouth. He promised Pres[ident]. Cannon that his life should not be cut short, and that he should be fully restored.

The brethren now partook of the sacrament, Elder Heber J. Grant blessing the emblems. In the midst of the prayer, steam whistles were heard in the town, in token of rejoicing, as was afterwards learned, over the announcement of the surrender of Santiago de Cuba. After the sacrament, at the invitation of President Snow, Presidents Woodruff and Cannon made remarks, and

the council at 2;30 P.M. adjourned. (1)


-- Jul 14, 1898
Meeting of the First Presidency and Apostles at the Salt Lake Temple. Present: Pres[iden]ts. Wilford Woodruff, Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon, Jos[eph]. F. Smith, and Lorenzo Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, Brigham Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, Geo[rge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, A[nthon]. H. Lund, M[atthias]. F. Cowley, and A[braham]. O. Woodruff (all the Apostles present except John W. Taylor, who is on a mission in Colorado). The Apostles were also together yesterday, it being their regular Quarterly meeting, and to-day they partook of the sacrament, it being their fast day.

Elder Lund remarked that he omitted to state at the last meeting that there was no publication in the Turkish Mission. It was thought that Bro[ther]. [Ferdinand F.] Hintze might be able to print and publish some work, if he had the necessary means—about $400. Bro[ther]. Lund was authorized to see Bro[ther]. [Leon] Sarkis, the Armenian about returning to his native land as a missionary, in company with Jos[eph]. W. Booth, who is to leave shortly.

Pres[ident]. Cannon remarked that there were some features of our missionary labors that ought to be considered. He had learned this morning that the fund recently set apart for missionary purposes would soon be exhausted, and he had felt for some time that a committee of the Twelve Apostles should be appointed to inquire into our missionary operations, to see if the number of missionaries could not be reduced, without materially affecting the progress of the work. He had taken an interest in getting up the form now used by Conference Presidents in reporting the labors and ability of missionaries, and yet felt very much disappointed over the general capacity as missionaries after being in the field for two or three years, as reported by their Presidents. In too many instances incapable and unsuitable men had been sent out at a cost to themselves as well as to the Church. He favored sending fewer and more competent men, and thought the brethren having in hand the calling if missionaries should give this matter careful attention.

President Smith remarked that there was a better class of men to draw from to-day than ever before for missionaries, but still what President Cannon had said was, he was sorry to say, too true. The solution, however, was found in the fact that so many Elders were called at the present time as compared to former times in the Church.

Pres[ident]. Cannon presented the following motion, which was carried: "I move that a committee of Apostles be appointed to investigate into the results of the various missions, and ascertain as nearly as they can the cost of sending and returning Elders, the amount expended by toward their own sustenance while in their fields of labor, and the number of converts made". It was understood that the Presidency would appoint the committee. ...

Pres[ident]. Cannon was administered to by the brethren, Elder Lyman being mouth. He promised Pres[ident]. Cannon that his life should not be cut short, and that he should be fully restored.

The brethren now partook of the sacrament, Elder Heber J. Grant blessing the emblems. In the midst of the prayer, steam whistles were heard in the town, in token of rejoicing, as was afterwards learned, over the announcement of the surrender of Santiago de Cuba. After the sacrament, at the invitation of President Snow, Presidents Woodruff and Cannon made remarks, and the council at 2;30 P.M. adjourned.

Met at 10 talk was excellent on spiritual matters, what were our ideas on former lives. Bro[ther]. [Francis M.] Lyman said we were always men never had a beginning of existence. So we all think but not quite so pronounced as Bro[ther]. L[yman]. The conversation opened our eyes a little. ...

Presidency vis W[ilford]. W[oodruff]., Geo[rge] Q. C[annon]. & Jos[eph] F. S[mith]. had talk about business filling mission Con[ference]. appointments. Some discussion about decreasing our missionary force in the world. It struck me favorably. Bro[ther [Anthon H.] Lund was appointed to about mission needs. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Journal History; Brigham Young Jr., Diary

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Jun 23, 1898; Thursday

-- Jun 23, 1898; Thursday
Elder Anthon H. Lund of the

Council of the Apostles, called at the President's Office this morning, having just returned from Palestine.

At 11 A.M. the First Presidency and the Apostles met as usual in the Temple. Present: Pres[iden]ts. Wilford Woodruff, Jos[eph]. F. Smith and Lorenzo Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, Brigham Young [Jr.], John Henry Smith, Geo[rge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, A[nthon]. H. Lund, and M[atthias]. F. Cowley.

Brother Lund presented to Pres[ident]. Snow a genuine Turkish rug, made expressly for the Salt Lake Temple by one of the sisters of the Church, whom he met during his travels in the Orient. The rug was made since 1893 the year of the Temple's dedication, and the figures 1893 are woven into the fabric. ... (1)


-- Jun 30, 1898
Meeting of the First Presidency and Apostles at the Temple at 11 A.M. Present: Pres[iden]ts. Wilford Woodruff, Jos[eph]. F. Smith and Lorenzo Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, Geo[rge]. Teasdale, M[atthias]. F. Cowley and A[braham]. O[wen]. Woodruff. ... Elder A[braham]. O[wen]. Woodruff presented the following case: A woman was sealed to her husband and had children by him; he died and she afterwards married a Gentile and had children by him. In course of time he joined the Church and wanted his children sealed to him. Elder Woodruff asked for information regarding the matter, and was answered to this effect: That the woman having been sealed and divorced was already in the covenant of the Holy Priesthood, and her children born to the Gentile, as well as those born to her husband, were already in the covenant, and therefore could not be sealed to her Gentile husband.

The following case was presented by Elder Lyman: Sidney R. Burton, an apostate, died out of the Church, and is supposed to have committed suicide, though this is uncertain. He left a wife and children in the Church. His widow now desired permission to have his Temple work done (He had not received his endowments) and be sealed to him. Brother Lyman favored the granting of the request, as it might be the means of her holding her children together. Elder Young took the opposite view, holding that such leniency might be regarded by them as a licence and do them more harm than good. Pres[ident]. Smith thought it a waste of time as well as an improper proceeding to seal a woman to such a man. He believed in giving a woman the largest liberty possible in such a case, and would even strain a point by granting her request; but at the same time he would advise her against it. Pres[ident]. Snow agreed with Pres[ident]. Smith. Pres[ident]. Woodruff thought that we should not defile our Temples and altars by acting in such cases, but leave them in the hands of the Lord. Brother Lyman agreed with the views of the other brethren, but thought that as there had been so much leniency shown in such cases of late, he would satisfy Sister Burton's feelings by bringing the matter before the Council. It was finally decided that the case be laid over for further inquiry. ...

Met in Temple Pres[ident] [Wilford] W[odruff]. & [Joseph F.] S[mith]. present. Question of admitting apostate husband now dead of faithful woman to ordinances of Temple. he was active against church up to time of his death. He felt it repugnant to my feelings others advocate for sake of wife & children it would soften them. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Journal History; Brigham Young Jr., Diary

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, May 5, 1898

-- May 5, 1898
The First Presidency and Twelve discussed the Word of Wisdom. One member reads from the twelfth volume of the Journal of Discourses a statement by Brigham Young that seems to support the notion that the Word of Wisdom was a commandment of God. Lorenzo Snow, then President of the Council of the Twelve agrees, saying that he believes the Word of Wisdom was a commandment and that it should be carried out to the letter. In doing so, he says, members should be taught to refrain from eating meat except in dire necessity, because Joseph Smith had taught that animals have spirits. Wilford Woodruff, then President of the Church, says he looks upon the Word of Wisdom as a commandment and that all members should observe it, but for the present, no definite action should be taken except that the members should be taught to refrain from meat. The minutes of the meeting record that "President Woodruff said he regarded the Word of Wisdom in its entirety as given of the Lord for the Latter-day Saints to observe, but he did not think that Bishops should withhold recommends from persons who did not adhere strictly to it." (1)


-- Thursday, May 12, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

I surrendered 2047 shares of Groesbeck Co. old stock and am to take the new.

I had a short visit with Prest. Lorenzo Snow and we talked over in a frank way the financial condition of the church and what we would do as to having an understanding with the presidency in regard to those affairs. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - On This Day in Mormon History, http://onthisdayinmormonhistory.blogspot.com
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Saturday, Apr 9, 1898

-- Saturday, Apr 9, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

Prest. Lorenzo Snow spoke [on] Temple work and the aiding the Labor with their means. ... (1)


-- Apr 26, 1898
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] In company with my brother Willard & nephew Richard W. met Pres[ident] Woodruff & Geo[rge] Q. C. I was condemned without question Pres[ident] W. said I have talked with no one not read anything but the Herald this morning and I say when men leading men in our church undertake to defy the Gov[ernmen]t they should be careful to seek the council of the presidency & twelve I said President, who has defied the Gov[ernmen]t you should not judge me the words and what is written by the Herald an enemy The Pres[ident] decided for Willard & Richard to go on receiving volunteers. I said I have tried to make head against the spirit which is going through the people especially among our young men to rush into the army exhibiting a desire to engage in war; that spirit is not of God and I condemned it perhaps my language was rough and certainly subject to missinstruction but I am content for you to get your information from such men as Angus M. Cannon & C. H. Penrose who heard all I have said one disloyal sentence I will make such reparation as you may choose to recommend. The feeling among the gentiles and some of the Mormons is strong against me. God help me to be humble & take reproof in proper spirit. I will be one with the president God being my helper. [marks were passed upon me for my speech on Sunday. I can't help it now and trust as president Snow remarked it will do more good than harm. I am quite sure it will cause the presidency of the church to take a prompt stand on this question which the saints are longing for. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Mar 24, 1898

-- Mar 24, 1898
(B. H. Roberts) March 5: The First Presidency, the Twelve, and Seven Presidents of Seventy continued to labor with the Democrat leader. "We spent the whole day here until six o'clock laboring with B. H. Roberts," Wilford Woodruff wrote. "He stood like Adamant and he is going to destruction." Roberts felt that the political manifesto constituted an infringement on basic civil liberties. He was suspended from ecclesiastical duties and given three weeks to recant. Two weeks later Heber J. Grant recorded that Roberts "held all the brethren at bay."

March 24: He walked the streets all night, wrestling with the dilemma of sacrificing principle or being stripped of his Church blessings. Just hours before the deadline, he decided to sign and was accepted back into fellowship.

1898. With approval from Quorum of the Twelve President Lorenzo Snow, Roberts ran for the House of Representatives and won by a plurality of 7000 votes. (1)


-- Sunday, Apr 3, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

President Lorenzo Snow is 84 years of age today. A fast meeting was held by the Temple workers at nine a.m. and many bore testamony. A good spirit was present. At the close of the services, Bp. John R. Winder in behalf of the Temple Workers presented a beautifull boquet to Prest. L. Snow. He made a neat speach, to which Prest. L. Snow responded. The Bouquet was of white flowers. Three large lillies represented the first presidency. Twelve White Roses the Apostles. Seventy white cornelilans the Seventies, and a base of many white flowers representative of the great body of Saints.

It is snowing today.

Prest. Geo. Q. Cannon and I testified we had seen the Saviour at the Temple meeting this morning. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Van Wagoner, Richard and Walker, Steven C., A Book of Mormons, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, January 12, 1898

-- January 12, 1898
[James Jenry Martinau] To day received the following in answer to the letter I sent to Prest Lorenzo Snow in November, and which he had submitted for consideration to the First Presidency and Twelve:

"Salt Lake City, Utah 24th Dec. 1897

Elder James H. Martineau

Dear Brother. In replying to the questions submitted by you in your letter of Nov. 28th 1897, it is not necessary to repeat them here, as you will find them covered by a decision made on Thursday, December 16th 1897, by the Council of the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles, which was as follows:

(1st) That the sealing of a couple outside of a temple, as husband and wife for time and eternity by one holding the requisite authority (The President of the Church, or any one deputed by him) is as valid as when performed in the House of the Lord, even when either or both of the parties have not been previously endowed.

(2nd) That children born after such sealing are legal heirs, even if begotten before the sealing occurred, and it is therefore unnecessary to seal them to their parents.

(3d) No measures are at present afoot looking to the erection of a temple in Mexico. Your Brother in the Gospel Lorenzo Snow." (1)


-- Thursday, Mar 24, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

All of the Presidency and Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Myself, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, Matthias F. Cowley, and Abraham O. Woodruff of the Apostles met at the Temple. I made a report of my labors in the south.

I asked the brethren for the priveledge of working to make myself a United States Senator. Joseph F. Smith moved I be allowed to make the effort. It was seconded by Lorenzo Snow and carried unanimously. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - James Henry Martinau Journals
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Jan 6, 1898

-- Thursday, Jan 6, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

All of the Apostles but F. M. Lyman, Anthon H. Lund, and M. F. Cowley met at the Temple at 10:30 a.m. At 11 a.m. all of the first Presidency came in. President Lorenzo Snow asked the Presidency as to the duties of the Apostles in Connection with the Presidency in the financial affairs of the Church. All of the Apostles present spoke very plain and Elder Brigham Young made a very sweeping statement in which he said president Geo. Q. Cannon was the cause of the great indebtedness of the Church.

All three of the Presidency said it was their view that the two Quorums should be united in the consideration of the more weighty problems that affect the whole Church. Prest. Geo. Q. Cannon felt very much hurt over the remarks of Elders Brigham Young and Heber J. Grant. (1)


-- Friday, Jan 7, 1898
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

My wife Josephine passed a very bad night.

All of the first Presidency and all of the Apostles but F. M. Lyman, A. H. Lund, and M. F. Cowley met at 12 noon in the Apostles' room in the Temple.

After some explanations of yesterday['s] sayings, Prest. Franklin D. Richards moved we forgive each other for Harsh words spoken and that we partake of the sacrament. President Joseph F. Smith seconded the motion and said it now being about to be determined by vote of the joint Councils of the presidency and Twelve that they shall act together upon all questions of great moment to the Church, he felt to ad his hearty endorsement of this action.

The vote was unanimous. We partook of the Sacrament together. After the Presidency withdrew, President Lorenzo Snow said, brethren the Lord approves of our action and in the future the Quorums will understand each other better.

Elders F. D. Richards, Brigham Young, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, and Abraham O. Woodruff bore testamony. (1)

Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Jan 4, 1898

-- Jan 4, 1898
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] [Quarterly meeting of Apostles] President Lorenzo Snow ... There are two things required of us as apostles, a perfect union among ourselves, and a perfect union with the First Presidency. If this [is brought about, may not need to die but be translated] He referred to the advanced age of Pres[iden]t Wilford Woodruff, and the fact that his first counselor Bro[ther] Geo[rge] Q. Cannon was doing some things that we could not approve of. This makes no difference as it is our duty to sustain him. The loss of $100,000 more or less is as nothing in comparison with our failing to sustain the First Presidency. Disunion in our midst would be sweet morsel for our enemies. It is the right of the twelve apostles to make known to the Presidency their suggestions on any matter of importance where the interest of the Church is at stake and in some cases it is our duty to express our feelings. After we have expressed our feelings it is then our duty to sustain the Presidency in their plans although they may be in opposition to our own feelings. After a free expression of our feelings we should sustain them, hit or miss, live or die. The Lord does not always select religious men to do His work, but he selects men of strong will and determination. I feel it in my bones that all will be well if we will be true to one other and sustain the First Presidency. Heber J. Grant ... Expressed himself freely on the question of asking the Presidency to share their financial burdens with the apostles. Did not feel that it was right for men like Frank J. Cannon to be selected to represent the Church. Felt it was an outrage that Frank was used as he was and also that the Church's official paper should be edited by John Q. Cannon I expressed it as my opinion that we should ask the Presidency in a respectful manner for a knowledge of the affairs of the Church, and protest against such men as Frank Cannon being employed, and then if the Presidency did not wish to make any changes or to trust us with the business of the Church I was in for sustaining the Presidency. I explained that there was no malice in my heart and that I did not want to injure any man, but neither did I want any man to have the honor of the Church intrusted to him that was not worthy. I felt to say with reference to the Presidency. "Even though they slay me, yet will I trust in them." ... (1)


-- Jan 5, 1898
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] Meeting at 10.30 a.m. Our conversation in relation to first presidency was resumed. We are all thoroughly convinced that Presidents Woodruff & Smith are all right but Pres[ident] C. is wrong in many things in financial business. I proposed that, we trust the people with the labor of helping the church out of its indebtedness we must keep in touch with the people. There were present Pres[ident] L. S., F. D. R., B. Y., Jno. H. S. Geo[rge] T., H. J. G., Jno. W. T., M. W. M. & O. Woodruff 9 in all and we seem to be agreed. Met at 3 p.m. It was agreed that Pres[ident] Snow lay our feelings before the presidency and one or two others of the Quorum should be in perfect harmony & knowledge of financial affairs. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Sunday, Dec 26, 1897

-- Sunday, Dec 26, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

Lorenzo Snow, Heber J. Grant and I called at Brigham Young's home. We had a long talk over the financial condition of the Church. We also determined to insist that under existing conditions that the Councilors of the President must consult the apostles on leading questions. (1)


-- Jan 4, 1898
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [Quorum of 12 met at 10 a.m. President Snow called on Brother Woodruff and then Brother Taylor.] Then Pres[ident] Snow spoke on condition of first presidency followed by Bro[ther] Teasdale (who was in favor of our minding our own business) Jno H. S., B.Y. & F. D. R. we all had complaints to make I wanted a T in T appointed to release Pres[ident] W. and for the First Presidency to correct all mistakes especially Pres[ident] Cannon so that he would not be humiliated when the first Quorum was dissolved, Jno Q. C. & Frank C. would be relieved as soon as the Twelve managed matters. Bro[ther] Richards did not agree with me I related a dream about relief coming to Pres[ident] W. [met again in the afternoon and continued the discussion.] (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Dec 16, 1897

-- Dec 16, 1897
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [[Temple meeting 11 a.m. with W. W., G. Q. C., J. F. S., L. S., F. D. R., B. Y., J. H. S., Geo[rge] F., H. J. G., A. Lund. In discussion it was noted, "Adam is our father and God and no use to discuss it with Josephites or any one else." ... "Question on ceremony of marriage sealing couples who have never had their endowments; do their children need to be sealed to them in the Temple when they come to have their endowments. Answer, No. It is all done."]] (1)


-- Saturday, Dec 25, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

I spent the day with my family. I ate dinner at Sarah's. I received the folowing from President Lorenzo Snow.

Dec. 25, 1897

Apostle John Henry Smith

Dear Brother.

Will it be possible for you to meet with myself and others on matters of Importance Sunday noon. At No. 37 Canyon Road. Respectfully.

Lorenzo Snow

I answered I would do so with pleasure.

My son Geo. A. had a nice Christmas tree with Santa Claus who distributed a lot of presents to the children of the neighborhood. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Oct 14, 1897

-- Oct 14, 1897
[Temple] [George F. Gibbs to Lorenzo Snow, Oct. 14, 1897] The question was considered today in the council of First Presidency and apostles, whether adults who had not received their endowments should be permitted to enter the temple to be sealed to their parents. The question was decided in the negative. (1)


-- During 1897, November
First issue of Improvement Era published. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Anderson, Devery; The Development of LDS Temple Worship, 1846-2000: A Documentary History, http://amzn.to/TempleWorship
2 - Ludlow, Daniel H. editor, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Publishing, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 4, Appendix 2: A Chronology of Church History, http://amzn.to/eG0DIp

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, 10/12/1897

-- 10/12/1897
At meeting of all the apostles except Grant and Merill, Pres. Snow let out on Adam being our father and God. How beautiful the thought - it brot [sic] God nearer to us. Bro Franklin [D. Richards] said it made him thrill through his whole body - it was new & it was inspiring. I followed. (1)


-- Wednesday, Oct 13, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

All of the Apostles but Bros. Heber J. Grant and M. W. Merrill met at the Temple. Bros. Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, and A. H. Lurid spoke.

All of the Presidency met with the Apostles and F. F. Hintze and talked over the Mission to the holy land. It was decided to make settlement in Palestine.

Prest. Lorenzo Snow asked me to speak on the effect of President Wilford Woodruff's sermon on Politics during conference. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Brigham Young Jr. diary, Church Archives
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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More History?

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Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Oct 7, 1897

-- Thursday, Oct 7, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

President Wilford Woodruffs talk yesterday in Conference has created a sensation in this City.

My son George is very poorly.

The following named brethren met in the Apostles room in the Temple at 2 p.m.: Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman,

John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, Anthon H. Lurid, Matthias F. Cowley, Abraham O. Woodruff, and Geo. F. Gibbs as Clerk. Prests. Woodruff, Cannon, and Smith, also Young and Lyman gave some good advice and a charge to our incoming brethren.

Prest. Geo. Q. Cannon was mouth in ordaining Matthias F. Cowley. Prest. Wilford Woodruff was mouth in ordaining his son Abraham O. Woodruff. All of the Presidency and Twelve except Bro. Heber J. Grant had their hands on these brethren's heads. (1)


-- 10/12/1897
At meeting of all the apostles except Grant and Merill, Pres. Snow let out on Adam being our father and God. How beautiful the thought - it brot [sic] God nearer to us. Bro Franklin [D. Richards] said it made him thrill through his whole body - it was new & it was inspiring. I followed. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Brigham Young Jr. diary

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Sep 30, 1897

-- Thursday, Sep 30, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City

Prest. Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, and Anthon H. Lund, with Geo. F. Gibbs and clerk, met at the Temple at 11 a.m.

Heber J. Grant was not able to come.

Matthias S. Cowley and Abraham Owen Woodruff were selected to fill the vacancies in the Council of Apostles.

A letter written some days ago by President Wilford Woodruff to the 19 made the request that his son be appointed one of the Apostles. I drove my family out.

Joseph W. McMurrin was selected to fill the Seventies. (1)


-- Sep 30, 1897
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. Salt Lake. I attended meeting with the First Presidency and Twelve at 11 a. m. Some minor business was attended to, when Owen Woodruff and Matthias F. Cowley were selected by the First Presidency and President Snow to fill the vacancies in the Quorum of the Twelve. (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Sep 9, 1897

-- Sep 9, 1897
[Apostle Franklin D. Richards Diary] Resolved that council of the Apostles accepts the Presidency of the Church and sustains Lorenzo Snow as its president Each spoke Cannon & Smith will make a statement of church liabilities to the council. Some verbal explanations were made. (1)


Meeting of the Presidency and Apostles at the Temple at 11:30 A.M. Present: Pres[iden]ts. W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, L[orenzo]. Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith and G[eorge]. Teasdale. Pres[ident]. J[oseph]. F. Smith and Elder A[nthon]. H. Lund at Parsons Ranch [Nevada]; B[righam]. Young [Jr.] at Fruitland [New Mexico], F[rancis]. M. Lyman in the South; H[eber]. J. Grant sick.

The subject of filling vacancies in the Council of the Twelve and Seventies was considered, and it was decided to notify all the Apostles to come to the City to attend the regular meeting on the 30th inst., to counsel on this subject. Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon expressed the desire that in filling the vacancies nothing should intervene of a personal or partisan character, to prevent the mind and will of the Lord being carried out in the selections that would be made. Pres[ident]. Snow stated that applications were being made by Saints coming from a distance to view the interior of the Temple. It was decided that persons who had received their endowments might be permitted to see the Temple when it was not being used for the endowments.

It was also decided that persons who have not received their endowments, whether children or adults, should not be permitted to witness a marriage in the Temple. ... (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Diary Excerpts of Franklin D. Richards, 1887-1897, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
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Lorenzo Snow, Aug 13, 1897

-- Aug 13, 1897
The High Council of the S[alt]. L[ake]. Stake met as per adjournment, at 10 A.M., the Presidency and all members of the Council present. Prayer was offered by Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose. Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon announced that if there was no objection, the decision would now be rendered. Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose then read the complaint, the finding of the Stake Presidency, and their decision, as follows:

Salt Lake City, Utah, July 30, 1897. To The Presidency and High Council

Of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion. Dear Brethren:–

We hereby prefer a charge against Brother Moses Thatcher of apostasy and un- Christian-like conduct, exhibited in public speeches, private conversations, in interviews through newspapers and in other ways, showing a departure from the spirit of the Gospel and the doctrine and discipline of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, such as to forfeit his right to fellowship and standing in the Church.

Your brethren,

Brigham Young [Jr.],

Francis M. Lyman,

Heber J. Grant.

Apostasy, as has been argued here, varies in its extent. In a general way apostasy means revolt. It is so defined in the Dictionary. But the Prophet Joseph Smith says in this connection: "The moment we revolt at anything which comes from God, the devil takes power". (Compendium, page 288). On this ground "apostasy" includes any revolt or departure from a rule or regulation, established by the Lord, whether in person or by his appointed servants.

We consider that Moses Thatcher exhibited an apostate spirit and was un-Christian- like in his conduct:

First. In his interview published in the Salt Lake Tribune, which he has admitted to be in the main correct, as to his views though not as to his exact language, he there virtually charges the authorities of the Church with bad faith, in declaring, first, that they would not interfere in politics, and next, that they intended to and would so interfere, and that this "practically annulled their former declaration". He also announced his readiness to champion "the cause imperilled" by the latest declaration of the Church authorities.

Second. In giving to the public private correspondence between him and President Lorenzo Snow, which related only to Church and Quorum matters.

Third. By using language as follows in his reply to President Lorenzo Snow, published in the [Salt Lake] Tribune and [Salt Lake] Herald of November 11th, 1895:

"Although the judges before whom I am to be arraigned have nearly

expressed an opinion as to the merits of my case; although my accusers are to sit in

judgment over me; although a verdict has already been delivered against me and

without a hearing.

In a conversation with President Lorenzo Snow, on the train between Salt

Lake and Brigham City last Saturday, Nov. 7th, I was given the impression that I

have absolutely nothing to hope for in any other than a public hearing such as I now

request".

Fourth. In writing to President Lorenzo Snow, Nov[ember]. 11th, 1896, saying:

"I shall not trouble my brethren therefore to convene in a special meeting

named for Thursday at 2 o'clock P.M., in the Historian's Office". And this after the meeting had been called at his special request.

Fifth. By resorting to the quibble that he was "not invited" to the meeting one week alter, when he was notified that his case would be considered, and in stating, "since judgment in these matters has already been passed".

Sixth. In charging President Lorenzo Snow with publishing "matter in order to gratify the apparent curiosity of five young men", and describing his (Pres[ident]. Snow's explanations) as "a bitter and acrimonious communication".

Seventh. By endeavoring to make it appear that the authorities of the Church, in publishing the Declaration of Principles, had contradicted what they had previously announced in the Deseret News and an interview with the Salt Lake Times, as to the political liberty of the members of the Church. He used this language:

"As I have already stated, I understood the manifesto at the time it was

handed me for approval, just as I understand it now. While it ostensibly appeared not

to restrict the liberties of the people, yet there was no limitation to its application, and

in view of the fact that nearly every male member of the Church holds some office,

and, as there has, as yet, been no public decision announced as to the officers to be

controlled by it, there have arisen disputes and differences of opinions as to its intent.

This being true, and the danger being that it could be applied to restrict the liberties

of the people, I cannot sustain it. I thought then, as I think now, that such a course

would be a stultification. I had never dreamed that a condition would arise in my life

where I could not serve God fully and yet yield my complete allegiance to my country

and to my State. The spirit of the manifesto, as it appealed to me, was in violent

597 antagonism to all I had believed and publicly proclaimed for many years, and I could not, and, so far, have not been able to bring myself to a point where I believed I should yield my political judgment to any set of men, however praiseworthy their intentions.

When the manifesto was presented to me it appeared to my mind as a command on all to recognize the right of the Church authorities to control political concerns; it meant, as far as I was concerned, a recantation of the principles I had for years advocated—a receding from the ground I had occupied during the division movement, and, above all, it made me feel that I would be untrue to myself. I do not claim that I cannot be wrong; but with the light I have, the manifesto, (applied as its construction will allow, as it would be interpreted by men whose personal ambitions might control and subvert their sense of right) could be operated to the injury of the State". Eighth. While protesting against the mingling of religion and politics, he repeatedly thrust his differences with the Church into political speeches, as for instance in the Legislature at the close of the Senatorial contest, and at a reception given to him at Logan [Utah], Feb[ruary]. 12th, 1897, and also a reception to the Idaho Legislature at his house, Feb[ruary]. 21st, 1897.

"There is room in this new State for all societies and all organizations, but they must confine themselves within proper limits. The men who enacted the supreme law of this State, made a covenant with the citizens thereof and with this nation that certain things should be done and performed, and we must keep those covenants. He who desires peace and prosperity for Utah, will draw the line sharp between the rights of the citizens and the powers of the State and those of the Church. He who votes for the union of the two, or the overriding of the Church by the State, is no friend of Utah. He who invites the intervention of the Church in State matters is an enemy to Utah. If we think we can bring peace and continual prosperity to this new State by temporizing with this question, we will be mistaken.

"With the same honesty of purpose, but with a much more joyful heart, he had voted with his quorum to grant the Saints entire political freedom. He meant it then, he just as sincerely meant it now. He who thinks that because we are surrounded by the walls of Statehood that it is now safe to unsay that which has been said, to proclaim by word or act that there was any duplicity or double dealing in order to secure desired concessions, is mistaken. He had not laid aside his office in the Church to obtain political honors, but because he saw dire calamity confronting the people if this course were taken. His audience knew the position he had occupied for forty years on the question of liberty, and he could not now with one act expunge that record and stultify the avowed sentiments of a lifetime.

"He spoke of the struggles of the Mormon people in the early days, and dwelt on the relations between the Church and the State under a Republican form of government. He described the position he had taken on this subject, and reviewed some of the circumstances connected with the recent manifesto and his refusal to sigh it. He conceded that the Church had a right to discipline its members for the

598

infraction of Church rules, but it had no right to carry Church matters into political

affairs.["]

Ninth. In his own published explanation of the remarks he made in the Legislature about a higher allegiance, as follows:

"No legislator can keep his oath of office inviolate, if he or she allows the

officials of an ecclesiastical organization to control his actions within the province of

the State.

The day must come in Utah when he who (being an officer in the State) holds

a higher allegiance (to the chiefs of any alien or church organization) than that which

(under his solemn oath) belongs to the State, must not be a lawmaker in the halls of

the State".

Tenth. In the same article he uses this language:

"Doubtless a great struggle is now inaugurated in Utah, a struggle for

freedom, for liberty, for the integrity of free government, for the principles

incorporated in American institutions. If the State is to be controlled by the dictation

of the Church its sovereignty is lost and its independence is a myth, an iridescent

dream. It is a cause of profound gratitude and thankfulness that so many noble and

true women and men, chosen as the representatives of a great and earnest people,

have stood unflinchingly in the face of intense and unscrupulous opposition, day after

day, for more than half a hundred ballots, as exponents and advocates of the

principles of Jefferson and Jackson.

It is only in this spirit that Utah will continue redeemed from a thralldom as

obnoxious as that of African slavery or Russian serfdom".

And this:

"The State demands of its citizens and law-makers duty well and faithfully

performed under oath. The Church demands of its members, the same individual,

another and different thing. The `higher allegiance' to which I referred would require

obedience to the Church. Here is a conflict. Who is responsible? Under our State

Constitution the Church is responsible. That being so, the proper solution of the

conflict and difficulty is simple. Let the Church vacate the forbidden ground and all

will be well.

I repeat, those holding such 'higher allegiance' should find no place in the

halls of the Legislature".

Eleventh. The same ideas were elaborated in his speech introducing Mr. Warren Foster, at Logan, Feb[ruary]. 17th.

Twelfth. No matter what were his intentions, the affect of his utterances and course on the public mind was that he was fighting the Church on a vital question,. namely, the political liberty of the members of the Church. That he was the champion of freedom as against the chains which the Church was forging to bind them. That the Church was endeavoring to dominate the State and interfere with its functions, and he was opposing that attempt. That the leaders of the Church had promised political liberty to the people in order to obtain Statehood, and then had changed their policy and promulgated a new rule, to dominate them and restrict their political liberties, and were, thus guilty of double dealing

599 and Punic faith.

This is shown by the letter introduced by Brother Thatcher from the Presbyterian preacher at St. George [Utah], the article by the Catholic Priest at Denver [Colorado], introduced by Brother Grant, the letter written by Brother E[dwin]. G. Woolley, at St. George, the rallying around Brother Thatcher of the enemies of the Church, the endorsement of the hostile press, and the cheers of the multitude who were antagonistic to the Church leaders.

Thirteenth. The letter written by Elder B. H. Roberts to Brother Thatcher shows that Brother Roberts perceived the effect which had been produced on the public mind by their united course, and in not listening to the appeal thus made and not endeavoring to correct that wrong, there was an un-Christian-like spirit exhibited by Brother Thatcher.

We recognize the fact that Brother Thatcher's bodily afflictions have been great, and that they have weakened him in mind to some extent, or rather that they tended to cloud his brain while in the time of his greatest trials. This should be considered when the degree of his wrong is determined.

But Brother Thatcher evidently fostered the idea that his brethren of the Twelve, or some of them at least, were his enemies, and that they desired his injury, to crowd and crush him, and this affected his mind so much, perhaps, as his bodily infirmities. In this he was wrong as he now appears to perceive.

He also evidently allowed the idea to be magnified in his mind that he was under great obligations to his party, and that these were such as to overshadow his previous obligations to the priesthood and the Church. Yet there was nothing in them to prevent Brother Thatcher from consulting with his brethren in reference to matters so important, as affecting the welfare of the whole people.

Now as to the Argus matter: Brother Thatcher has cleared himself of the suspicion that he was financially interested in that paper, or was responsible for its utterances and cartoons. But he might have repudiated those libels and shameful pictures in some way, and we think he ought to have done so. The fact that prominent men have refrained from replying to or noticing falsehoods in the public prints reflecting on themselves, does not apply to nor does it touch the case of Brother Thatcher's neglecting to repudiate things that reflected upon his brethren and exalted him, and created the impression that he favored them. We think he erred in not condemning those things in some public manner.

As to his plea that he sustained the Church authorities so strongly that he would have gone to the middle of Africa, if they had whispered to him that this was their wish, the fact that he would not conform to the simple rule which they submitted to him for his signature, weighs very heavily in contrast.

But in all Brother Thatcher's departures for the true spirit of a servant of the Lord, he was laboring under a misapprehension of the purpose of the Church authorities and of the meaning of the rule in the Declaration of Principles. This was what led him to place them in a false light before the public, and bring them into disrepute, and cause disaffection and division among the Latter Day Saints.

The spirit he has now manifested, and his expression of willingness to do all in his power to make right such wrongs as have been brought about, though unintentionally, by his

600 course and writings, commends itself to our consideration. We are glad that light has come to him and that he can see he was in error when he set up his individual judgment against that of all the leading authorities of the Church.

It was a monstrous notion that all those leading brethren were guilty of double dealing and Punic faith. It was one that should make any man pause and reflect and ask himself if he himself was not in the wrong and had misjudged his brethren.

We are thankful that this investigation has been conducted in kindness and patience and deliberation, and with a desire to bring forth the truth.

Brother Thatcher had the right to place his case, as he viewed it, before his brethren with as much detail as he desired. Having done so he has submitted it to this Council in a spirit of humility, which is very gratifying to us, and we believe pleasing to the Lord.

It was also very gratifying to hear Brother Thatcher acknowledge the Apostles as the mouthpieces of the Lord, clothed with Authority as Prophets, Seers and Revelators, and acknowledge that they were seeking his salvation while probing his ailment to the very bottom. Such acknowledgments are indicative that Brother Thatcher is ready to comply with our decision, which is as follows:

DECISION.

We therefore decide that the charges against Brother Moses Thatcher have been sustained, and that in order to retain his standing and fellowship in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints he publish a statement to the satisfaction and approval of the Presidency of this Stake of Zion, fully covering the following points, viz:

That in taking the position that the authorities of the Church, by issuing the Declaration of Principles, on April 6th, 1896, acted in violation of pledges previously given, and contrary to what they had published in the Deseret News and given to the Salt Lake Times, he was in error and in the dark.

That he now sees there is no conflict between that declaration and their former utterances in reference to political affairs.

That he was mistaken in conveying the idea that the Church authorities desired and intended to unite Church and State, or to exercise undue influence in political affairs.

That wherein the public have been led to believe through his utterances that the leaders of the Church were forging chains to bind the members of the Church, an impression was created that he did not intend and does not wish to prevail.

That wherein he has placed the authorities of the Church in a false position, however unintentionally, he has done them an injustice and is ready to make such amends as lie in his power.

That he acknowledges the First Presidency and Council of the Apostles as God's servants, as Prophets, Seers, and revelators, and their authority as supreme in the Church.

That when one man is out of harmony with them in the enunciation of a rule for the guidance of the Church, he must submit to the rule or be regarded as not in full fellowship.

That no member of the Church has the right to oppose and bring into contempt any rule of the Church which has been formulated by proper authority, especially when it has been adopted by the Church as a body.

That he was in error in stating in his published letter to President Lorenzo Snow:

601

"During all these weary months, while friends and physicians believed that I

was on the verge of the grave, I was administered to only once by members of our

quorum, although day after day engagements made for that purpose were for reasons

unknown to me not kept".

In this connection he may state that one such engagement was not kept, but that this was not an intentional breach of promise.

That in speeches and published letters he has used expressions which had been better unsaid, and that he regrets their utterance.

That he knows of no higher allegiance or more solemn and binding obligations than those of a religious character, between a man and his God.

That in speaking of "chains", "oppression", "curtailment of liberty", "malice", "anger", "spite", and "revenge", he did not intend to reflect upon the authorities of the Church in any way, and is grieved that his language has been so construed.

That in failing to attend the meeting of the Twelve Apostles on November 12th, and again on November 19th, he made a grave mistake, which he now regrets, though he did not see it then in that light.

That he believes his brethren of the Apostles have been actuated by a desire for his salvation, and not his destruction, and that though their rebukes have been sharp, they were intended to bring him to a sense of his true position.

That wherein he has wronged any of his brethren by word, deed or improper understanding of their spirit and intent, he now asks their forgiveness.

That he has obtained light wherein he was in the dark, and can sustain in his faith and feelings the authorities of the church, its doctrines, rules and regulations, and desires the fellowship of the Church, and humbly asks forgiveness for all his faults. The findings and decision as read were unanimously sustained by vote of the Council. Adjourned till Wednesday, August 26th, at 7:30 P.M. Benediction by Councillor William Eddington.

Met; Pres[ident]. [Angus M.] Cannon decided as a testimony showed, Moses [Thatcher] was possessed of an apostate spirit, repentance demanded. Moses asked does this Council know of any other body to whom I could appeal. Pres[ident]. C[annon]. said Pres[ident]. [John] Taylor said he had right to call my case but no appeal could be sent to First Presidency from the Council. I was a little startled at Moses question knowing his belief in a higher tribunal or council than the Presidency. Pres[iden]t. C[annon]. gave him 30 days to write his acknowledgement. he asked for time. (1)


-- Wednesday, Aug 25, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] ... Prest. Wilford Woodruff, George Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, and myself with Geo. F. Gibbs met in the Temple. On motion of Franklin D. Richards, seconded by Lorenzo Snow, it was unanimously agreed Silas Sanford Smith should be ordained a Patriarch. President Wilford Woodruff instructed Joseph F. Smith to ordain him. ... (2)

Endnotes:
1 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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Lorenzo Snow, Aug 9, 1897

-- Aug 9, 1897
At 10 A.M., High Council Salt Lake Stake re-convened, as per adjournment, the Presidency and High Council all present. Prayer was offered by Councilor Edward Snelgrove.

Brother Moses Thatcher again appeared as a witness in his own behalf. He asked, "Why am I condemned for arguing against the union of Church and State, when such are the views of our leading brethren on that subject? And if I should differ from them is not this State and Nation guaranteeing freedom of speech and of the press?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher went on to argue that he ought not to be condemned by prejudice and rumor.

Councillor Elias A. Smith made the objection that this was argument and was out of order at this stage of the proceedings, and was sustained by Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon.

Bro[ther]. Thatcher then stated that of all the documentary evidences as to his public utterances to show the spirit of apostasy, only one was published before April 6th, 1896, when he was dropped from his quorum, and was that his letter to Elders Lorenzo Snow and B[righam]. Young [Jr.], giving reasons why he could not sign the Declaration of Principles. He went on to dilate on the action taken in presenting his name at Conference. He stated that he did not give that letter to the press. It was given by one of his sons to a reporter, believing it was the right thing to do. He presented a document containing a reply to what the brethren had charged him with. It was very voluminous and Bro[ther]. Thatcher being in feeble health, Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose offered to read for him. What was read consisted chiefly of the letters to President Lorenzo Snow, the latter's reply to the request of five young men for an explanation of the Thatcher case, also the chapter entitled "A Masterly Vindication", published in a pamphlet entitled "The Late Manifesto in Politics", by Calvin Reasoner. The tenor of the whole document was to show that Bro[ther]. Thatcher had labored long for the Church, used his means in various ways for its enterprises, and that his utterances about Church and State were in accord with the sentiments of the First Presidency, expressed in the interview with the Salt Lake Times, and on that he asked if he was to be condemned. He argued "But it may be said, are you so dense that you cannot see that another policy is now adopted? I do see it and for a long time past have seen it and have been sorely tried because I have not been able to see that wisdom which it may contain, but that has not been the chief trouble, for I could have gotten along with that as with some other things when willingly following the judgment of those wiser than I, but unfortunately for me, I had aligned myself with a political party, thinking it a proper thing to do, and that party claimed its dues. And paying those dues produced a conflict; covenants, agreements and pledges had also been entered into, the violation of which on my part seemed improper, dishonorable and dangerous. Statehood was desirable and it, as it appeared to me, could not be had unless our promises and pledges were redeemed. I contended for that and in doing so, aroused the opposition and antagonism of my superiors in the Church, whom I revered and loved and with whom I oft broke bread". Bro[ther]. Thatcher then dilated upon his sickness and the probability that he had used harsh words when irritable, but he could not see how these denoted apostasy or treachery. He solemnly declared that the thought of betraying his brethren had never entered his heart. He quoted from a letter written by Pres[ident]. John Taylor, which said: "I was not born a slave! I cannot, will not be a slave. I would not be a slave to God. I would be his servant, friend, his son; I'd go at his behest, but would not be his slave. I'd rather be extinct than be his slave". Bro[ther]. Thatcher went on to explain that after his suspension from exercising the functions of the Priesthood, and his deposition on Nov[ember]. 19, 1896, led to the publication of the correspondence between him and Pres[ident]. Snow. He related the circumstances attending his nomination for public office, and deprecated the idea that he was an apostate or an ambitious man. The judgment of the Council would be to him and his family of vast moment.

The speakers for the accused not having any questions to ask, Bro[ther]. Thatcher was cross- examined, and denied that he had any connection whatever with the Argus Publishing company. No article in it was ever submitted to him. As to the question of "Higher allegiance", he said "No person should hold a higher allegiance than to the Church". As to the declaration of Principles, he said he held the same views as he had done all the time. Some parts he could endorse, and others he could not endorse. His objection was there seemed to be in it a conflict with agreements and pledges made by us and the authorities of the Church, but it would be in conflict with the agreement passed at the Conference of 1891. The Declaration made at the Reconvened Convention of the Democratic Party protested against the union of Church and State, and proclaimed that we must be absolutely free in all political matters.

Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman asked that Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher should take the Declaration of Principles and underscore the sentences which he could not subscribe to.

The Document was read in full. Brother Thatcher replied that in view of the published declaration that there should be no union of Church and State, he could not see his way clear to sign that document. had it applied to certain leading officers and been made definite, he could have signed it.

Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose asked "what is there in that document that you object to?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "The place I have marked reads: `We declare that there has never been any attempt to curtail individual liberty—the personal liberty of any of the officers of the Church. The First Presidency and other leading officers did make certain suggestions to the people when the division on party liens took place. That movement was an entirely new departure and it was necessary, in order that a full benefit should not be lost which was hoped to result from the new political division, that people who were inexperienced should be warned against hasty and ill-advised action'". Bro[ther]. Thatcher said reference was made to political matters. Asked for other objections, he said he would have to read it over in order to name them all.

Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "In your speech to the Legislature did you meant hat your first and higher allegiance was to the State? Did you not mean that it was greater than to be a high official in the Church"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "No, I did not." Bro[ther]. Lyman: "What did you mean then?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I meant that anyone taking the oath to support the Constitution of the United States or the Constitution of this State and the laws thereof, and as a legislator, and believing that certain laws might be enacted through the influence of someone not a member of the Legislature through ecclesiastical influence, and would vote against his own conviction, thus acknowledging a higher allegiance. That is what I meant, nothing else".

Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose asked: "Do you meant that, as I think has been stated in this evidence, the time will come when any person who holds a higher allegiance than that which he holds to the State, shall not be allowed to sit in the Legislature"? "I had no such thought in my mind as that".

Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon: "Explain to us what you did mean." Brother Thatcher said: "A legislator had to take an oath to be obedient to the constitutional laws of the nation and State, he would thus be absolutely free to act according to his judgment, and if he wanted to vote for a man for Senator, and some one wanted him to vote for another against his wish, and he did that, he should not be a member of the Legislature.["] It was ecclesiastical influence in State matters, as he had explained, that he objected to. A number of questions were asked on this line, but no further explanations were elicited. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said, however, that he did consider that he would stultify himself if he signed the Declaration of Principles, on the ground explained in his testimony.

Elder Heber J. Grant: "Did Calvin reasoner publish his pamphlet at your request"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I think not. He got no information from me. I did not furnish him money to print it". In answer to further questions, Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "I am not aware that I have taken any political obligations upon me that the people are not acquainted with. I have strictly held to the pledge made by the people of the nation by the people of this State. I did not see the new policy. If I did it was too late to turn around. I may be all wrong, and I may be a fanatic, but I am sincere in the stand I took".

Brother Grant asked if Bro[ther]. Thatcher would be willing to publish a card expressing disapproval of the statements made in Reasoner's pamphlet and of the impression they had created. Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered, that if an injustice had been done to any of his brethren by anything he had said or done, and it was pointed out to him, he would do anything in his power to make it right. If he had not been under political obligations, it would have been quite different with him.

Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "Don't you think you made a mistake in not signing the Declaration of Principles"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I have not felt that I made any mistake under the circumstances". He made an extended reply, speaking of the suffering he had endured. He thought the Latter-day Saints would have been a great deal better if none of the Apostles had accepted offers to speak on political matters.

Bro[ther]. Lyman asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher whether he thought that in the trouble between him and his brethren that he had been right in everything he had done. Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered: "I think I have been wrong in a great many things, but I did not think the brethren were justified in proceeding against me so suddenly when I was on the verge of the grave; and I so feel now."

Bro[ther]. Grant read from Bro[ther]. Thatcher's remarks when Warren Foster visited Logan, and asked if he did not then reflect on those who signed the Declaration of Principles. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied he did not.

Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "What was the change of policy he had referred to on the part of the Church". To this Bro[ther]. Thatcher made a lengthy statement about the Interview with the Times, the card published by the First Presidency and the Declaration of Principles, which he thought conflicted one with the other.

Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher to define the difference between the Declaration of Principles and the interview in the Times. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied: "In the Interview it states that persons were left free to vote for the party they pleased". Bro[ther]. Penrose: "What is the change you speak about"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher related a number of things which had no bearing on the question, and was pressed by Bro[ther]. Penrose to show wherein the change of policy of the Church which he claimed had been made. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied that he could not explain any better than he had done, but he thought if he had more time he could show that there was a difference of policy in the Declaration of Principles to that declared in the Times interview.

Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon announced that the Council would adjourn until next morning at 10 A.M., to give Bro[ther]. Thatcher time to underscore the portions of the Declaration of Principles he could not sustain, and also prepare himself to answer Bro[ther]. Penrose's question. The High Council then adjourned. Meeting in B[righam]. Y[oung]. Schoolhouse Trial of M[oses]. Thatcher resumed. Moses seems determined to fight every inch of ground he takes notes & is as technicle as a man can well be. Much of the ground is gone over time and again. (1)


-- Aug 10, 1897
The High Council reassembled on the [Moses] Thatcher case at 10 A.M. The Stake Presidency and all members were present. Prayer was offered by Councillor Elias A. Smith.

Brother Moses Thatcher was ready to reply to the questions by Elders F[rancis]. M. Lyman and C[harles]. W. Penrose. In response to Elder Lyman's request that he mark such portions of the Declaration of Principles as he could not endorse, he presented the "Rule Adopted at the April Conference in 1896," with the objectionable parts underscored, as follows:

First. We unanimously agree to and promulgate as a rule that should always be

observed in the Church by every leading official thereof, that before accepting any position,

political or otherwise, which would interfere with the proper and complete discharge of his

ecclesiastical duties, and before accepting a nomination or entering into any engagements to

perform new duties, said official should apply to the proper authorities and learn from them

whether he can consistently with the obligations already entered into with the Church upon

assuming his office, take upon himself the added duties and labors and responsibilities of the

new position. To maintain proper discipline and order in the Church, we deem it absolutely

necessary, and in asserting this rule, we do no consider that we are infringing in the least

degree upon the individual rights of the citizen.

Brother Thatcher stated that he understood that to be in direct conflict with the authoritative declarations contained in the celebrated [Salt Lake] Times interview, made by Pres[iden]ts. [Wilford] Woodruff and [George Q.] Cannon. These were read once more by Bro[ther]. Penrose in behalf of Brother Thatcher. An objection was raised by Councillor John Clark to the repetitions of these readings, and Bro[ther]. Penrose also stated that he could see no good purpose in them, but still was willing to read to relieve Bro[ther]. Thatcher from the strain, if the Council so desired. He also asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher to point out in the Declaration of Principles wherein there was any new policy or any change of policy from that announced in the Times interview. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said that if the whole of his document was read it would give the answer in question so far as he could make reply.

Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon then explained to Bro[ther]. Thatcher that argument was not proper at this stage of the proceedings. All that was wanted was an answer to the questions that had been propounded, but on motion from Councillor Nicholson, seconded by Councillor Richards, the whole of the statement and argument of Bro[ther]. Thatcher was read to the Council by Bro[ther]. Penrose. It consisted of extracts from letters, documents and pamphlets already introduced, also parts of an open letter addressed by Bro[ther]. Thatcher to Pres[ident]. Jos[eph]. F. Smith and Elder John Henry Smith, Resolutions passed by Democratic Conventions, etc., and repetitions of Bro[ther]. Thatcher's definition of the term "higher allegiance." At the conclusion of the reading, Bro[ther]. Penrose again put his question: "Wherein is there a change of policy announced in the Declaration of Principles from that contained in the Times interview"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "In the document that has just been read I think that question has been entirely covered. I take the position that there is a difference". Bro[ther]. Penrose: "Just point out the words in the Declaration of Principles where the change of policy is made". Brother Thatcher: "The difference is, as I have explained and has placed me where I am". Bro[ther]. Penrose asked further questions with the view of getting Bro[ther]. Thatcher to point out where the Declaration of Principles interfered with the political liberties of members of the Church in the exercise of the voting power. Also wherein the leading authorities of the Church whereby that Declaration under any restrictions, except that they should, when desiring to enter into obligations which would interfere with the performance of their duties, consult with their presiding officers before assuming those added obligations. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied: "That portion which has been read here today does not seem to". "Is not that the portion you object to"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered: "That is the portion that I object to". Bro[ther]. Thatcher admitted that it was proper for such officials before taking such steps, to seek counsel from the proper authorities, but claimed that he was under obligations to his party which he could not consistently break, and he did not think a citizen had any right to refuse to accept a nomination if his party demanded it of him. He admitted, however, that a man in business, holding a position under an employer or a Directory, would have no right to engage in political affairs which would take him away from his duties, without the consent of his employers or the resignation of his position.

After much time had been consumed on this point, Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "Bro[ther]. Moses, why could you not do as Bro[ther]. Roberts did"?

Br[other]. Thatcher: "Do as he did, and not have a full conviction that the Lord required it? Not for ten thousand worlds, unless I had a revelation that God required it, and I do not believe there is any necessity for requiring that".

Bro[ther]. Lyman: "Bro[ther]. Moses, why not submit to the authorities and the rule of Church discipline"?

Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "For the reason that I would break my pledges with my party and also with the nation".

Adjourned till 5 P.M.

Council reconvened at 5 P.M., all parties being present. Bro[ther]. Heber J. Grant asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher some questions in relation to the solemn obligations which were entered into by Apostles before being ordained, and whether they were not required above all things to devote themselves and their entire time if required, if their entire lives in the interest of the Church. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied that these promises were made, but he considered there was a general understanding that there should be an entire separation between political and ecclesiastical matters. Some further questions were put in relations to matters immediately preceding his being dropped from the Apostleship and Priesthood, but no further [light] was shed on the matter. At the request of Councillor Davis, Bro[ther]. Penrose read the Declaration of Principles in full, and on further questioning as to his reasons for not accepting it, Bro[ther]. Thatcher stated that he thought he had fully explained that before the Council.

Bro[ther]. Aaron F. Farr, Jun[ior]., witness for the accused, stated that before the cartoon was published in the Argus, he heard of it and in company with Mr. Noble Warrum he waited upon Mr. Bloor the editor, and asked if he might see it. Mr. Bloor would not permit him to do so. Bro[ther]. Farr urged that if it was like what had been described it would injure Mr. Thatcher a great deal, and asked that it might be suppressed. Mr. Bloor asked whether Mr. Thatcher had requested him to make that request. He replied no, that Mr. Thatcher did not know anything about it. Mr. Bloor then said that it was none of Mr. Farr's business and they would publish it. On still urging that it would injure Mr. Thatcher, Bloor answered: "We are doing things our own way. It is the Church we are fighting".

Bro[ther]. Isaac D. Haines for the accused, testified, that he had been associated with Bro[ther]. Thatcher for 12 years, in sickness as well as in health, and found him always one of the most careful, prayerful and conscientious brethren he had ever met. Even when under the most excruciating pain, he had spoken kindly and respectfully of his file leaders. In answer to questions from Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Bro[ther]. Haines stated that in his prayers with the family, Bro[ther]. Thatcher had prayed for light and also that he might accept the decision of this Council. Bro[ther]. Thatcher had manifested a very humble spirit and a desire to obtain light, especially since this investigation had commenced. In cross-examination, Bro[ther]. Haines admitted that it would have been reasonable for Bro[ther]. Thatcher to have gone to Pres[ident]. Woodruff for light, and that the decision of the President of the Church was final.

In answer to Elder Brigham Young [Jr.], Elder Haines said he was present at Bro[ther]. Thatcher's house when he, Bro[ther]. Young, presented to Bro[ther]. Thatcher Pres[ident]. Woodruff's request for him to resign his position as one of the Trustees of the B[righam]. Y[oung]. College, and Bro[ther]. Thatcher refused to resign. Bro[ther]. Haines said that Bro[ther]. Thatcher refused to resign, in his presence. Bro[ther]. Haines expressed his friendship for Bro[ther]. Thatcher and his belief that his long sickness had impaired his powers so much that he was not able to see it in a proper light. Bro[ther]. Haines denied emphatically ever saying in relation to Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon that he ought to go off and die.

Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher, Jun[ior]., questioned by his father, stated that he had been reprimanded by his father for speaking lightly of the General Authorities of the Church. Also that he and Severin Jeppesen waited upon Pres[ident]. Lorenzo Snow and asked him to come and administer to his father, when Bro[ther] Snow promised to bring Pres[ident]. Woodruff with him and some other brethren. He did not come, and the family did not know why.

In answer to questions from Elder Brigham Young, Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Jun[ior]., said the brethren referred to whom he had spoken against were Bro[ther]. Brigham Young, Bro[ther]. Snow, Bro[ther]. [Franklin D.] Richards and he thought Bro[ther]. Lyman. He felt that the brethren had not kept their word with him, in promising that nothing would be done with his father until he got well. The impression he received from the brethren was that nothing would be done in his father's case until he was fully recovered. He told that to his father, and he thought they had not kept their word.

Bro[ther]. Severin Jeppeson, in answer to Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher, said, Pres[ident]. Woodruff gave to witness his consent for Bro[ther]. Thatcher to go away while he was sick and said he would relieve him from all responsibility, and nothing would be done in his case until he was well enough. That was in 1896. Witness also saw Pres[ident]. L[orenzo]. Snow, when the word was out that Bro[ther]. Thatcher's case was to [be] called up, and explained to Bro[ther]. Snow Bro[ther]. Thatcher's condition. Bro[ther]. Snow advised him to explain this to Brother Woodruff. Pres[ident]. Woodruff said "Tell Brother Moses to go off and take a rest. Take good care of him and nurse him well, and I hope he will soon recover from his sickness". That was in the latter part of July, 1896. Witness was with Moses Thatcher Jun[ior]. when Bro[ther]. Snow promised to visit Bro[ther]. Thatcher. In answer to questions from Bro[ther]. Penrose, Bro[ther]. Jeppeson said he had not seen Bro[ther]. Snow since to ask him why he did not come, but other authorities of the Church came and administered to Bro[ther]. Thatcher during his sickness. He remembered that Bishop Kessler, Bro[ther]. Roberts, John Henry Smith, Bro[ther]. Penrose, Bro[ther]. Patterson, Bishop Beatie and others administered to him.

Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher here said he would withdraw the expression that he had made in his reply to Pres[ident]. Snow that engagements to administer to him were for reasons unknown to him unkept.

Bro[ther]. Geo[rge]. T. Thatcher, witness for the accused, testified that his father had nothing to do with the publication of the copy of the letter sent to Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow and Elder Brigham Young, giving his reason why he could not sign the rules of Church discipline. The facts were these: Bro[ther]. Geo[rge]. E. Hyde who had been to Conference came in and reported that Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher's name had not been presented, and they two were responsible for the publication of a copy of the letter. They thought the public ought to know Bro[ther]. Thatcher's reasons for not signing the Declaration, and it was given to the papers after 12 o'clock at night. Reporters had previously been to interview Bro[ther]. Thatcher, but did not see him. The witness said he did not act under instructions from his father nor do it by his permission. In answer to Bro[ther]. Jos[eph]. E. Taylor, the witness said he did not inform the papers that he furnished the copy of the letter without consulting his father.

Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher said he had no more testimony to offer at that time.

Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman testified in rebuttal that it was contemplated to bring Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher to trial when his son applied to have the matter postponed. But the Presidency and Apostles all agreed that Bro[ther]. Thatcher should not be brought to trial until he was in better health. He could have come at any time, however, and made matters right without a trial. When the October Conference came and nothing having been done by Bro[ther]. Thatcher, it was necessary that some explanation be given. That was the reason why Pres[ident]. Woodruff and others made the remarks which were published. As to the Declaration of Principles, it was submitted to the whole Council between the meetings of Conference. It was read over and some few corrections made, but the whole Council did not have it as long as Bro[ther]. Thatcher did. It was not true that Bro[ther]. Roberts was urged to sign it. He was perfectly reconciled with his brethren before a scratch of the pen was made on that document. All the authorities signed it without any argument. Bro[ther]. Lyman further testified that when he and Br[other]. John W. Taylor visited Bro[ther]. Thatcher it was not with any reference whatever to politics.

Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Lyman whether he understood that there was any breach of agreement between the brethren and Bro[ther]. Thatcher in the remarks made concerning him by the brethren at the Conference. Br[other]. Lyman replied: "No". In consequence of Bro[ther]. Moses' attitude and writing, it was necessary that some explanations should be made. Bro[ther]. Thatcher was not brought to trial, as was promised, until he was able to appear. Pres[ident]. Woodruff frequently urged the Apostles to take up Bro[ther]. Thatcher's case. The explanations at Conference originated with Pres[ident]. Woodruff.

Bro[ther]. Thatcher asked Bro[ther]. Lyman whether it was not known for a long time he was sick so that he was not able to stand on his feet. Bro[ther]. Lyman replied that he knew Bro[ther]. Thatcher had been in poor health and was very weakly. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "I did not think that Pres[ident]. Woodruff or any of the brethren would think to put me on trial at the Conference." Bro[ther]. Lyman replied: "That six months had elapsed from April. Bro[ther]. Thatcher was not put on trial, but some explanations of [the] case were made. You were in error, Bro[ther]. Thatcher, and would not be reconciled; the trouble could have been settled very easily, but as you would do nothing something had to be said by way of explanation".

The testimony now being closed, the Council was adjourned till 9 o'clock Wednesday morning. Benediction by Councillor John Nicholson.

10 a.m. continued to push the case. Bro[ther] M[oses]. [Thatcher] will die hard but there is but one chance for him through humiliation put himself in the hands of his brethren nothing else will save his membership in the church and I am inclined to believe that he will not sacrifice that. 3.30 p.m. Resumed investigation Moses obdurate. Bro[ther]. [Heber J.] Grant is finding out Moses is weak I am not much better prolonged effort and strain is telling on others of the Council. (1)

Endnotes:
1 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary

LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow

Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/

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