-- Apr 5, 1900; Thursday
The Presidency were at the office in the forenoon until shortly before 11 o'clock. The stockholders of Z.C.M.I. held a meeting in the office and elected a board of directors.
At 11 o'clock the First Presidency and the Apostles met in council meeting at the Temple. There were present: Presidents [Lorenzo] Snow, [George Q.] Cannon and [Joseph F.] Smith, Brigham Young [Jr.], Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, George Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, Anthon H. Lund, Matthias F. Cowley, Abraham O[wen]. Woodruff and Rudger Clawson.
President Snow as trustee-in-trust presented an elaborate financial report, showing receipts of the Church from all sources during the past year, also the disbursements.
On motion the report was received and approved and ordered filed.
President Snow made some remarks in relation to the report, and expressed his gratitude that the credit of the Church was so much better now than it was a year ago, because all danger had been removed of creditors making demands that could not be met. The President dwelt on the subject of tithing, and urged the
brethren to keep this subject alive in their hearts and among the Saints. He also spoke of a condition that existed in some Stakes where the brethren were feeble or because of the state of their health were not able to look after the interests of the people, and while it was unpleasant to ask such men to resign yet they should be willing to occupy other positions and let younger men who were in the vigor of youth take hold of the burdens under which they were laboring. He thought it was wise to inform those who were called to positions of this kind that they were to act as long as their services were blessings to the people. No man because of infirmity would lose his Priesthood and a man who should resign from his calling as a Bishop or President of the Stake did not step down or backwards, but held just as much Priesthood and could still be useful in the Church in some other calling.
After a few general remarks on the subject of tithing by the brethren, President Snow stated that there wqas a vacancy in the Council of Apostles caused through the death of President Franklin D. Richards, and he invited the brethren to hand in to him two names each of persons whom they thought worthy and could recommend to fill the vacancy.
Elder Merrill stated that he favored the Presidency uniting on a name and presenting it to the Council and President Snow answered that the Presidency would decide, but would like the apostles to express their individual suggestions.
President Snow then stated that there was another subject that ought to be settled, and perhaps the time had come when it should receive the attention of the Council. It was understood by the members of the Council that Elder Brigham Young was ordained an Apostle before President Cannon or President Joseph F. Smith, and there might be a question regarding the standing of these brethren in relation to seniority in the quorum, since both President George Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith were ordained as members of the quorum and were received into the quorum before Elder Young. Each of the brethren spoke to the question and all were agreed that the seniority should be based on the time the brethren were admitted to the quorum and not from the date of ordination, which in this particular instance took place when the quorum was full. Therefore the unanimous decision was the ranking order of these brethren was, first President George Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith and then Brigham Young.
The council then partook of the sacrament, Brother Young offering the prayer over the emblems. ... (1)
-- Apr 5, 1999
The Presidency were at the office in the forenoon until shortly before 11 o'clock. The stockholders of Z.C.M.I. held a meeting in the office and elected a board of directors. At 11 o'clock the First Presidency and the Apostles met in council meeting at the Temple. There were present: Presidents [Lorenzo] Snow, [George Q.] Cannon and [Joseph F.] Smith, Brigham Young [Jr.], Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, George Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, Anthon H. Lund, Matthias F. Cowley, Abraham O[wen]. Woodruff and Rudger Clawson. President Snow as trustee-in-trust presented an elaborate financial report, showing receipts of the Church from all sources during the past year, also the disbursements. On motion the report was received and approved and ordered filed. President Snow made some remarks in relation to the report, and expressed his gratitude that the credit of the Church was so much better now than it was a year ago, because all danger had been removed of creditors making demands that could not be met. The President dwelt on the subject of tithing, and urged the brethren to keep this subject alive in their hearts and among the Saints. He also spoke of a condition that existed in some Stakes where the brethren were feeble or because of the state of their health were not able to look after the interests of the people, and while it was unpleasant to ask such men to resign yet they should be willing to occupy other positions and let younger men who were in the vigor of youth take hold of the burdens under which they were laboring. He thought it was wise to inform those who were called to positions of this kind that they were to act as long as their services were blessings to the people. No man because of infirmity would lose his Priesthood and a man who should resign from his calling as a Bishop or President of the Stake did not step down or backwards, but held just as much Priesthood and could still be useful in the Church in some other calling. After a few general remarks on the subject of tithing by the brethren, President Snow stated that there was a vacancy in the Council of Apostles caused through the death of President Franklin D. Richards, and he invited the brethren to hand in to him two names each of persons whom they thought worthy and could recommend to fill the vacancy. Elder Merrill stated that he favored the Presidency uniting on a name and presenting it to the Council and President Snow answered that the Presidency would decide, but would like the apostles to express their individual suggestions. President Snow then stated that there was another subject that ought to be settled, and perhaps the time had come when it should receive the attention of the Council. It was understood by the members of the Council that Elder Brigham Young was ordained an Apostle before President Cannon or President Joseph F. Smith, and there might be a question regarding the standing of these brethren in relation to seniority in the quorum, since both President George Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith were ordained as members of the quorum and were received into the quorum before Elder Young. Each of the brethren spoke to the question and all were agreed that the seniority should be based on the time the brethren were admitted to the quorum and not from the date of ordination, which in this particular instance took place when the quorum was full. Therefore the unanimous decision was the ranking order of these brethren was, first President George Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith and then Brigham Young. The council then partook of the sacrament, Brother Young offering the prayer over the emblems. ... ... Pres[iden]t. [Lorenzo] Snow then said there was another subject that ought to be settled, and perhaps the time had come when it should receive the attention of the Council. In one sense it might be considered a delicate subject, but in another sense, which was the light in which the Council would consider it, there was no delicacy whatever about it, and that is, in regard to the man who was the proper person to preside over the quorum of the Twelve; in other words, who now is the senior member in the quorum, Bro[ther]. Brigham [Young Jr.], Pres[iden]t. Joseph F. Smith or Pres[iden]t. George Q. Cannon? It seems that Brigham was ordained an Apostle before either Bro[ther]. Cannon or Bro[ther]. Joseph but he was not received into the quorum until after both of them had been. I do not know of course how long I shall live, and should I pass away say within the next twenty four hours, who would be the President of the quorum, Pres[iden]t. Cannon, Pres[iden]t. Smith, or Bro[ther]. Brigham? If we consider that Brigham is the senior apostle, then he would be the President; of this there could be no doubt. (Bro[ther]. Young interposed, intimating that there was no question as between President Cannon and himself.) President Snow: Then in case of my death there could be no question but what Pres[iden]t. Cannon would be the next President of the Church. What we now want to understand then is, which ranks the highest, Brigham or Joseph? The question was then given to the Council. Pres[iden]t. Smith said he did not wish to be heard on the question, but asked permission to state that the Church Chronology (published by Andrew Jenson) gives the ordination of Bro[ther]. Brigham and Bro[ther]. John W. Young in 1855. The same work also states that Pres[iden]t. Cannon was chosen in 1859, but was not ordained until 1860. Pres[iden]t. Smith added, that he wished it understood by the Council that this was a matter upon which he had never before said a word. Bro[ther]. Young, in response to this, said, that he expressed himself upon this subject when it was up for consideration; that both he and Bro[ther]. Joseph differed on it, but that both had expressed themselves perfectly willing to submit to the mind of the Lord when it should be decided. This was the way he (the speaker) had expressed himself on it, and this was the way he felt now. Bro[ther]. [Francis M.] Lyman said his feeling had always been like this, whenever he had thought on the subject: That seniority of the Twelve Apostles who held the keys of the kingdom, dated fro the time they were called of God to be of the Twelve Apostles and presented to the Church, and endorsed and sustained and recognized by the church as members of the quorum of the twelve. That, he said, has been my view on this question. Hence, knowing that Brother Joseph F. Smith was in the quorum, and was received and recognized by the church and by the Lord as one of His chosen apostles, he therefore ranks from that date, and that no man who has come into the quorum since that time--neither Bro[ther]. Brigham, myself, or anyone else can rank him, and therefore he is our senior, and we his juniors. Bro[ther]. John Henry Smith said that he regarded this as a very important question from the fact that he understood there had been quite a number of men ordained apostles who had never been voted upon as such by the church. His kinsman, for instance, Joseph Smith [III], who stood at the head of the Re-organized Church, claims that he was ordained an apostle by his father. Of course his claim as such is not before this Council, neither can it be as he is an enemy to this church. The speaker said he desired greatly to be right on such a proposition as this, and therefore it did not become a question of man in his mind, it mattered not who was involved in it as it was a vital question of principle, and in this light only could it be considered. Bro[ther]. Smith aid he recognized the right of the President of the Church to ordain his sons apostles if he choose to exercise that right, and he took it for granted that the late President [Brigham] Young ordained Brigham and others of his brother apostles, and he supposed the history was correct in stating that Brigham and John W. were ordained before Pres[iden]t. Cannon; but it struck him that the action of the people on such ordinations was of supremest moment, and therefore whenever their action was taken, that would be considered the basis. On this phase of the propos
ition, the question of man was simply this: has a father--himself being an apostle--a right to ordain his son to the apostleship, and that son to preside without the action of the church, his ordination ante-dating that of the man chosen and acted upon by the church? The speaker said, to his mind there was but one view to be taken to safeguard the church and this council, and to the maintenance of their dignity in the world, such ordinations were dependent upon joint action, first, on the presentation by the First Presidency to the Council of the Apostles for their acceptance, and then to the people for their approval, and then he must be ordained in the proper way; otherwise it would open a door for questions to be sprung entirely unlooked for, and even the claim of his kinsman, Joseph, of the Re-organized Church, might not be barred from a consideration. His view therefore was that the safety of the organization of the church must be based on the action of the people, the action of the Presidency and Apostles, and the final action of ordination after having been passed upon legitimate lines. President Snow: Your view then is that Joseph is the senior of Brigham? The speaker answered yes. Bro[ther]. George Teasdale understood it was on record that Pres[iden]t. Cannon was ordained on August 26th, 1860; and he understood that Bro[ther]. Brigham was set apart as an apostle in October 1868, and that Bro[ther]. Joseph was received into the quorum October 6th, 1867. According to that, there could be no question about Joseph being the senior of Brigham. It was a question in his mind whether a man presiding over the church could ordain his sons apostles and expect the quorum to receive them as such. The twelve Apostles is an organization, and in that organization we will say a vacancy exists, and a man who might have been secretly ordained an apostle by his father, who perhaps had the right to so ordain him, comes and claims recognition of the quorum, stating that he was ordained on such and such a date. (Bro[ther]. Young interposed, stating for the information of Bro[ther]. Teasdale, that Bro[ther]. Kimball was present when he was ordained. Pres[iden]t. Smith corrected Bro[ther]. Young by saying that from a conversation he had with Pres[iden]t. Kimball, Bro[ther]. Young was mistaken on that point.) Bro[ther]. Teasdale, continuing, said that the revelations set forth the manner in which ordinations to the priesthood should be performed, that is, that before men were ordained they were presented to the body of the people, either in a ward capacity, a council of the priesthood or conference capacity. The question before the Council now in reality was no more or less than this: have I a right, as an apostle, to ordain my son, and he a right to come before this quorum to fill a vacancy in the quorum? And as to the question of seniority between Bro[ther]s. Joseph and Brigham, the record showed that Joseph was sustained by the general Conference as a member of the quorum a year or so before Bro[ther]. Brigham. President Smith asked to say a word in relation to President Brigham Young's ordaining some of his sons apostles. He said he was present in a circle meeting of the Twelve and the Presidency of the church, the date of which he was not clear on, but it might have been at the meeting when he himself was chosen an Apostle, and if not at that particular time, it was very near it. Pres[iden]t. Young informed the Twelve that he had ordained some of his sons to the apostleship, and that it was his right to bestow any blessing which he had power to bestow by virtue of his priesthood on his posterity. And he said, you brethren of the Twelve have a right to confer the same blessing on your sons. Pres[iden]t. Smith stated that he distinctly remembered President Young so expressing himself at one of the quorum meetings. Pres[iden]t. Cannon, after Pres[iden]t. Smith had taken his seat, and while retaining his own, said he was present at that meeting, and corroborated what Pres[iden]t. Smith had now stated; and he remembered too that President Young proposed at another meeting that Charles Kimball, who had just returned from a mission to England, be ordained an apostle in the same way. But Pres[iden]t. Kimball objected to doing this as he did not want Charlie to stand ahead of the older boys. Bro[ther]. [Heber J.] Grant was now invited to express himself. He said it seemed to him that seniority ranked fro the day a man became a member of this quorum. He referred to the time in the history of the quorum when it was proposed that the late Daniel H. Wells become a member of the quorum. If that proposition had carried and Bro[ther]. Wells had become a member, there was no question but what he would have come in at the foot, notwithstanding the fact that he had previously been ordained an apostle. The speaker said he could not see how Bro[ther]. Joseph could have voted for Bro[ther]. Brigham to be a member of this quorum and Bro[ther]. Brigham to be his senior in it; and besides, it may be that when Bro[ther]. Brigham was ordained or set apart as a member of the quorum that Bro[ther]. Joseph united with the other members of the quorum in the ordination or setting apart. Bro[ther]. John W. Taylor said he held the same views expressed by the brethren. Referring to President Young's ordaining some of his sons apostles, the speaker said if ordination to the apostleship is to constitute seniority in this quorum, President Young's other sons would naturally be the seniors of a great many members of this quorum. The speaker read from the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 107, 22nd verse, showing how the First Presidency became the First Presidency of the Church, and added that it was clear that their administration as First Presidency commenced from the time they were accepted and sustained by the general Conference of the church. Bro[ther]. [Marriner Wood] Merrill said he had always held the view that had been expressed here to the effect that seniority in the quorum dated from the time we became members of the quorum. He never knew which of these brethren was ordained first; but whichever came into the quorum first was the senior of the two. This he said was his view in short. Bro[ther]. [Anthon H.] Lund believed, as stated, that a man ranked from the time he was ordained or set apart in the quorum, hence Bro[ther]. Joseph ranked Bro[ther]. Brigham in the quorum. Bro[ther]. [Matthias F.] Cowley said he was entirely of the mind of the brethren on this question, that seniority should date from the time of admission into the quorum and not from the date of ordination. But he once entertained a different idea on this subject and related the following, showing how he conceived it: When a boy, he said, I was appointed to repeat the names of the Presidency and Twelve Apostles of the church in their order to the Young Men's Mutual Improvement Association of the 14th Ward. I discovered by reading Bro[ther]. George A. Smith's Answers to Questions that Joseph F. Smith was taken into the council before Bro[ther]. Brigham Young, and yet at general conference Elder Young's name was read before Elder Smith's. I wondered why this was, when the latter was in the quorum first. I went to President Woodruff for an explanation. He said they had followed the plan in this matter by ranking the Twelve according to date of ordination, and Bro[ther]. Young had been ordained before Bro[ther]. Smith. When Amasa Lyman left the quorum President Young, not wishing to place his own son in the vacancy as it might seem conspicuous, called Bro[ther]. Smith into the Council first. I was led to infer from this explanation that had it not been for the peculiar circumstances associated with the fall of Elder Lyman that Bro[ther]. Brigham would likely have been called into the Council before Bro[ther]. Joseph F. Smith. This fact, and the prior ordination of the former, probably led President Young to place Bro[ther]. Brigham before Bro[ther]. Joseph F. in presenting their names at conference. Bro[ther]. Cowley concluded by saying that in view of all the facts and the inconsistencies which m
ight arise from ranking by date of ordination, it was his firm conviction that they should rank from the date they become members of the quorum of Twelve Apostles. Bro[ther]. [Rudger] Clawson said that from his judgment of the case Pres[iden]t. Smith was certainly Bro[ther]. Young's senior in the quorum. Bro[ther]. [Abraham Owen] Woodruff said that he was agreed with the brethren, and he thought it would be a very dangerous precedent to recognize any different rule, as there was no telling what complicated questions might arise. President Snow asked President Cannon to express himself, and while Pres[iden]t. Cannon was turning over the pages of the Doctrine and Covenants, Pres[iden]t. Snow said: What I am going to say does not apply to Bro[ther]. Brigham; but there is just one thing that a Latter-day Saint, an elder of Israel, should never forget; it should be a bright, illuminating star before him all the time--in his heart, in his soul, and all through him--that is, he need not worry in the least as to whether he should either be a deacon or president of the church; it is sufficient for him to know that his destiny is to be like his Father, a God in eternity. He will not only be president of a church, but he may see himself president of a kingdom, president of worlds, with never-ending opportunities to enlarge his sphere of dominion. I saw this principle after being in the church but a short time; it was made as clear to me as the noon-day sun, and I expressed it in this language: As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be. This thought in the breasts of men filled with the light of the Holy Spirit tends to purify him and cleanse him from every ambitious or improper feeling. This glorious opportunity of becoming truly great belongs to every faithful elder in Israel; it is his by right divine, and he will not have to come before this or any other quorum to have his status defined. He may be a God in eternity; he may become like his Father, doing the works which his Father did before him, and he cannot be deprived of the opportunity of reaching this exalted state. Addressing himself to Bro[ther]. Young, the President said, Now, Bro[ther]. Brigham, you can see what the action of this Council is going to be. I never sought to be a Seventy or a High Priest, because this eternal principle was revealed to me long before I was ordained to the priesthood. The position which I now occupy is as nothing compared to what I expect to occupy in the future. President Cannon now arose and said that he did not know that he ought to say anything on the question before the Council, as his standing was involved to a certain extent according to the memory of some of the brethren. The question arose in his mind, How were we going to decide dates of ordination, or settle questions of dates of ordinations. Bro[ther]. Jenson, as the author of the little book entitled Church Chronology, had been referred to, but Bro[ther]. Jenson was no authority on such questions. He (Bro[ther]. Jenson) did not know when Brigham, John W., or Joseph A. were ordained unless he got it from somebody's memory as there was no public record of it. If there was a public record of such transactions we could all feel at ease. He had an impression, however, though he knew nothing about it, that Brigham and Joseph A. were ordained Apostles before he himself was. During President [John] Taylor's lifetime, Pres[iden]t. Cannon said he had several conversations with him in regard to Bro[ther]. Wells' ordination, and he asked him this question: Suppose all of the Twelve should pass away and I be left as the senior Apostle, (Pres[iden]t. Cannon here remarked that he ought to say this was prompted with only a natural desire to understand things, and of course with no other) how would I stand as compared with Bro[ther]. Wells on the question of seniority, he having been ordained an apostle before me, but was not a member of the quorum of the Twelve? President Taylor answered that his prior ordination under those circumstances would make no difference, that I would be the senior member. How would you reconcile that, with the fact that Bro[ther]. Wells laid his hands on my head in connection with ten of the Twelve and the First Presidency when I was ordained an Apostle, I asked? That makes no difference, he answered; you are in the quorum of the Twelve and accepted as a member thereof, and the quorum of the Twelve is the presiding quorum if anything happens to the Fist Presidency. Now the thought comes to my mind, Pres[iden]t. Cannon added, that there might be exceptions to this rule, even where there is an organized quorum with its members standing in their positions according to the dates of their ordination and their admission into the quorum, and still there might be exceptions. the speaker now read from the Doctrine and Covenants, verses 93, 94 and 95 of Section 124, as follows, speaking of Hyrum Smith: "That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed, that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. ["]And from this time forth I appoint unto him that he may be a prophet, and a seer, and a revelator unto my church, as well as my servant Joseph, ["]That he may act in concert also with my servant Joseph, and that he shall receive counsel from my servant Joseph, who shall show unto him the keys whereby he may ask and receive, and be crowned with the same blessing, and glory, and honor, and priesthood, and gifts of the priesthood, that once were put upon him that was my servant Oliver Cowdery." Pres[iden]t. Cannon then said when this revelation was given (1841) Joseph [Smith] was recognized as the only prophet, seer and revelator in the church. The twelve had not received their endowments; but Hyrum [Smith] was chosen then to be a prophet, seer and revelator. President Young said after the death of the Prophet Joseph, that if Hyrum had lived he would have presided over this church, for Joseph had ordained him. But, said the speaker, that was a special rule, a departure from the general rule. The church was at sea as to who should be the successor of Joseph, and it was this state of things that brought forth the remark from President Young, that if Hyrum had lived--and it was Joseph's wish that he should live, and for that reason he did not want Hyrum to accompany him to Carthage--he would have been President of the church. This was a special revelation from the Lord appointing him; but there has been no departure since the death of Joseph from the rule that now prevails. Upon Joseph's death Brigham Young was the President of the Twelve Apostles and the senior Apostle, and by virtue of that position and seniority he presided. Sidney Rigdon claimed the guardianship of the church; but from the moment that Brigham spoke in public to the people they recognized where the authority rested. Sidney had to fall back because he did not belong to the organized quorum of the Twelve. The same when President Young died, John Taylor, being president of the Twelve and the senior Apostle succeeded him. So at the death of President Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, being the senior Apostle, and the president of the quorum of the twelve, succeeded to the Presidency. Uncertainty on so important a thing as ordination is sufficient to almost invalidate the ordination, when it comes to a question of president of the church especially. If John W. Young were to claim to preside over the church, the first thing I should ask for would be evidence of his ordination. He might, for instance, say he was ordained in 1855--I may say that I never heard the date of his ordination--and the question would arise immediately, How could it be decided? We can all see that to entertain such a claim would involve unspeakable difficulty. There is only one course to take (we are talking of course on principle and succession to the presidency and not individuals--for when it comes to individuals we can all say we love Bro[ther]. Joseph F. and we love Bro[ther]. Brigham, and our love for the individ
ual should not for one moment influence us in regard to the principle involved)--but there is only one course that can be taken, and taken in safety, and that is the course suggested by all the brethren who have spoken. So far as I am concerned, I would not turn my hand over to occupy any place of the kind. I have prayed the Lord to spare my life, and not remove me from the earth to give place to somebody to rank me; I would rather live to honor the priesthood I hold than to preside over the Quorum of the Twelve or the church; and I would be willing that Joseph F., Brigham, or Bro[ther]. Lyman should preside if they would only give me a chance to magnify myself as an apostle. Bro[ther]. Brigham Young then said if he were not esteemed as highly as some of his more favored brethren, he could say that everything that is in him was in this work; but he did not like to be classed with men who had hindered, and in some instances opposed the work of God. (Bro[ther]. John Henry interposed, saying that if Bro[ther]. Brigham wished it he stood ready to apologize, but assured him that in mentioning the name of his kinsman, Joseph Smith, he had no intention whatever of making any such comparison. Referring again to the subject under consideration, Bro[ther]. John Henry said: People have questioned me in regard to this matter, and I have answered them, if anything happened to President Snow I should stand by George Q. Cannon.) The speaker said that if God would only spare him and give him ability to honor and magnify his priesthood as an apostle he would gladly become the junior member and in his heart thank the Lord for so exalted a position. I welcome Bro[ther]. Joseph F., if I stand next to him,--that is, if I do--yes, I welcome him as sincerely as I do that man (pointing to President Snow). I accept the situation and I thank God for it. People have bored me on this question. I wanted it settled, and it virtually has been settled. My father and Bro[ther]. George A. Smith put me there, as I understand it, and upon one occasion when I went to my father and said to him that my position was very embarrassing, and it had caused me untold agony, father turned round and said, "It's just right, as it is, you let it alone." God levels all such things. I thank Him for President Snow; I shall thank him for the man, whoever he may be, whether President Cannon or President Smith, who shall succeed President Snow--that is, if I survive our honored president. God help me to honor my position and calling in this quorum, and I shall give Him the glory, Amen. Pres[iden]t. Snow now said there would be no change from the present state of things. President Cannon is my first counselor and President Smith my second counselor, and they will continue in that relation to me without doubt while I live and have my good senses; and of course Brigham will act as the senior member of the quorum in all meetings of his quorum when they (Presidents Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith) are not present. I do not suppose President Cannon would want to resign his position as counselor and ask the brethren to accept him as their president; I doubt very much whether the quorum would do so even if he should have that desire, and nobody thinks for a moment that he would have it. What I mean by this is, that the quorum would naturally feel that President Cannon's place is in the First Presidency where he now belongs, and that they would not want him to sacrifice his standing in the first Presidency to become their associate in the Quorum and president. And the same in reference to Bro[ther]. Joseph. I do not think he would wish to resign from the First Presidency and request a position of this kind; but as I said in the beginning, if I were to die, Pres[iden]t. Cannon and Pres[iden]t. Smith would then take their places in the quorum as you have expressed it here; and in order to settle forever this question, we will take a vote upon it: Bro[ther]. Cannon would take his place in the quorum ranking as the first man, and Joseph would take his place ranking as the second man, and Bro[ther]. Young his place, next, and so on. It may be that neither of them may live to occupy this position of president; the Lord makes some very sudden and unexpected changes. He did it in reference to Joseph the Prophet. none of us who were his associates believed for a moment that he would go and leave us under those circumstances; the same with Hyrum, his brother. But the Lord's ways are different from man's ways. We didn't expect that President Young would die when he did. He had a desire to live to go back to Jackson County, and expressed that desire to me many a time. But we desire to be found ready for any emergency, and to avoid confusion or disorder or contention should the unexpected happen. You, in expressing your feelings, have expressed my feelings; and it is perfectly clear to my mind that this question should be decided, and decided as you have indicated. I say, it is perfectly clear to my mind that this should be done, and done in this way, and I have no hesitancy whatever in regard to it. Bro[ther]. Brigham will have all the honor he wants, especially when he and I get over on the other side; it may take time to gratify all our wishes, but time will bring to us all that we could possibly desire in righteousness before the Lord. Bro[ther]. Young responded Amen to President Snow. The President then put the question, all who think it right and proper that Bro[ther]. Joseph hereafter ranks Bro[ther]. Brigham, signify by the usual sign. Vote declared unanimous. President Smith now remarked that the decision now reached was the same as that rendered by President Taylor, that is, that seniority ranked from the time that apostles became members of the quorum of the Twelve. When this subject was considered, and this decision reached, President Cannon was in Washington. The speaker said he remembered it very well because he thought at the time that the question then decided might arise again in the future. In speaking upon it, President Taylor cited the fact that President Woodruff had ranked him for many years because he was an older man; but when the question of seniority was considered and acted upon by President Young, President Taylor was put in his proper place. besides, this has been the rule of the quorum from the days of President Young. Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Erastus Snow, Charles C. Rich all ranked in the quorum in order as they became members of the quorum. At the time that this matter was acted upon another question was considered, namely, that of ordaining little children to the priesthood during a time of serious sickness when their lives were despaired of, and they should afterwards recover and grow up to manhood. Pres[iden]t. Taylor gave this decision in such cases: That while it was unnecessary under those circumstances to ordain infants to the priesthood there was no harm in it; but if they should recover and grow up to man's estate, such ordinations should not be regarded as ordinations to the priesthood, and they therefore would have to be ordained by the proper church authority. The fact that President Young informed the quorum of the Twelve that he had ordained some of his sons to the apostleship, and if they (the Apostles) felt disposed to do the same thing with their sons, it was their privilege to do so, made it perfectly clear that this was simply a gift of good will of the fathers to their sons arising from a desire to give to their sons that which they possessed themselves; but, Pres[iden]t. Smith added, he did not think such an ordination could cut any more figure with respect to this council than if such ordinations had never taken place. On one occasion Bro[ther]. Heber C. Kimball told him that President Young had informed him that he had ordained his sons, Joseph A., Brigham and Heber apostles, but nothing was said about John W. having been ordained an apostle. (Bro[ther]. Brigham here remarked that John W. was ordained, however, but not his Brother Heber at that time.) Pres[iden]t. Smith continuing, said that Bro[ther]. Kimball felt
very badly about it, as he had not been consulted; he felt that President Young ought to have had a little more confidence in him. Bro[ther]. Kimball remarked on this same occasion that it was his privilege also to ordain his sons apostles, but he expressed the view that the only right way to do in such cases was to follow the accepted rules and methods of the church. This was confidential talk. Bro[ther]. Kimball also said, Joseph, you will be one of the apostles. I remember distinctly the effect this expression had on my mind, Pres[iden]t. Smith said. I dreaded to hear it; it made me feel that I had rather he had not said it, in fact, I felt very sorry he had told me such a thing. When I was ordained an apostle by Pres[iden]t. Young Pres[iden]t. Kimball was not present, and knew nothing of the ordination, and in fact I was put under covenant not to say anything about it. One day afterwards Bro[ther]. Kimball again spoke on this subject, repeating what he had said before, that I would yet become an apostle. I felt very much humiliated to think that I could not tell Bro[ther]. Kimball that I had already been ordained to the apostleship, and I felt sorry to think that this should have been done without his knowledge. Pres[iden]t. Smith then closed by saying, I believe, Pres[iden]t. Snow, that the action of this Council on this important question is strictly right, and I sustain it with all my heart. I believe, too, that this has been made clear for all time to come, and that there will never be occasion again to question it; and that it would be understood hereafter that whenever a man becomes a member of the Council of Apostles he takes his position from the date of his ordination and acceptance in the quorum. Pres[iden]t. Snow: I do admire the spirit which this quorum possesses. When a subject is brought up for consideration which needs a revelation from the Lord to decide, we can decide it in a very few words. We see it clear in our own minds, and that is the way we should live. Pres[iden]t. Cannon expressed a wish to have the proceedings of this council passed upon by the council; and Bro[ther]. John Henry Smith thought that a copy should be furnished each of the apostles to be recorded in their own private journals. At the Council meeting held July 12th, 1900, at which meeting the above minutes were unanimously approved, it was reported by Elder Brigham Young that he had learned since the meeting of April 5th that his ordination was subsequent to that of President Cannon's; that himself and brothers were ordained apostles on the 4th of February, 1864. This he had learned from the private papers of his deceased father. It was decided, on motion of Pres[iden]t. [Joseph F.] Smith, to add this as a footnote to the report of the proceedings of the Council of April 5th. Minutes of a Meeting of the 1st Presidency and Apostles held at Salt Lake Temple August [sic; April] 1900 On the question who is the Senior Member of the Quorum of 12 apostles-- President L[orenzo] Snow presented the case Bro[ther]s B[righam] Young [Jr.] & Joseph F Smith each made a few preliminary remarks-- Bro[ther] F[rancis]. M Lyman spoke on the subject followed by Bro[thers] John Henry Smith, Geo[rge] Teasdale, Pre[sident] Jos[eph] F Smith, Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q Cannon--Bro[thers] Heber J Grant, John W Taylor M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill. Anthon H Lund--M[atthias]. F Cowley Rudger Clawson Abraham O[wen] Woodruff. Pres[ident] L[orenzo] Snow as follows: What I am going to say does not apply to Bro[ther]. Brigham; but there is just one thing that a Latter-day Saint, an Elder of Israel, should never forget; it should be a bright, illuminating star before him all the time--in his heart; in his soul, and all through him--that is, he need not worry in the least as to whether he should either be a deacon or president of the church, it is sufficient for him to Know that his destiny is to be like his Father, a God in eternity. He will not only be president of a church, but he may see himself president of a Kingdom, president of worlds, with never-ending opportunities to enlarge his sphere of dominion. I saw this principle after being in the church but a short time; it was made as clear to me as the noon-day sun, and I expressed it in this language: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." This thought in the breasts of men felled with the light of the Holy Spirit tends to purify him and cleans him from every ambitions or improper feeling. This glorious opportunity of becoming truly great belongs to every faithful elder in Israel; it is his by right divine, and he will not have to come before this or any other quorum to have his status defined. He may be a God in eternity; he may become like his Father, doing the works which his Father did before him, and he cannot be deprived of the opportunity of reaching this exalted state. Addressing himself to Bro[ther] Young, the President said. now Bro[ther]. Brigham, you can see what the action of this council is going to be. I never sought to be a Seventy or a High Priest, because this eternal principle was revealed to me long before I was ordained to the priesthood. The position which I now occupy is as nothing compared to what I expect to occupy in the future. Pres[iden]t Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon spoke Pres[ident] L[orenzo]. Snow now said there would be no change from the present state of things. President Cannon is my first Counselor and President Smith my second counselor, and they will continue in that relation to me without doubt while I live and have my good senses; and of course Brigham will act as the Senior member of the quorum in all meetings of his quorum when they (Presidents Geo[rge] Q Cannon and Joseph F Smith) are not present. I do not suppose President Cannon would want to resign his position as Counselor and ask the brethren to accept him as their president; I doubt very much whether the quorum would do so even if he should have that desire, and nobody thinks for a moment that he would have it. What I mean by this is, that the quorum would naturally feel that President Cannon's place is in the First Presidency where he now belongs, and that they would not want him to sacrifice his standing in the First Presidency to become their associate in the Quorum and president. and the same in reference to Bro[ther]. Joseph. I do not think he would wish to resign from the First Presidency and request a position of this kind; but as I said in the beginning, if I were to die, Pres[ident]. Cannon and Pres[ident]. Smith would then take their places in the quorum as you have expressed it here; and in order to settle forever this question, we will take a vote upon it: Bro[ther] Cannon would take his place in the quorum ranking as the first man, and Joseph would take his place ranking as the second man, and Bro[ther]. Young his place, next, and so on. It may be that neither of them may live to occupy this position of president; the Lord makes some very sudden and unexpected changes. He did it in reference to Joseph [Smith] the Prophet. None of us who were his associates believed for a moment that he would go and leave us under those circumstances; the same with Hyrum [Smith], his brother. But the Lord's ways are different from man's ways. We didn't expect that President [Brigham] Young would die when he did. He had a desire to live to go back to Jackson County [Missouri] and expressed that desire to me many a time. But we desire to be ready for any emergency, and to avoid confusion or disorder or contention should the unexpected happen. You, in expressing your feelings, have expressed my feelings; and it is perfectly clear to my mind that this question should be decided, and decided as you have indicated. I say, it is perfectly clear to my mind that this should be done, and done in this way, and I have no hesitancy whatever in regard to it. Bro[ther] Brigham will have all the honor he wants, especially when he and I get over on the other side; it may take time to gratify all our wishes, but time will bring to us all that we could possibly desire in righteousness before the Lord. Bro[ther] Young responde
d Amen to President Snow. The President then put the question, all who think it right and proper that Bro[ther] Joseph [F. Smith] hereafter ranks Bro[ther]. Brigham, signify by the usual sign. vote declared unanimous. Twelve met at 10 a.m. Presidency came in at 11 oclock Principal question submitted was "which takes precedence or outranks the other in the Quorum of the Twelve, Pres[ident] Jos[eph]. F. Smith or Brigham Young [Jr.].["] Bro[ther]. F[rancis]. M. Lyman spoke first and was pronounced that no ordination of an apostle would supercede the setting apart a member of the Quorum. Bro[ther] B[righam]. Y[oung]. was ordained an apostle by his father some years before Bro[ther] Jos[eph]. F. S[mith]. Bro[ther] Joseph took his place in the Quorum a year before Bro[ther]. B[righam]. Y[oung]. My opinion is that Joseph F. Smith out ranks Bro[ther]. Brigham Young. Every one of the Quroum followed and were a unit with Bro[ther] Lyman. The presidency decided that decision was right. I acknowledged that it settled the question in my mind, as Bro[ther]. Lyman added it settled the question for all time to come. I raised the question with father some years before his death in consequence of what Bro[ther]. O[rson]. Pratt said, and father used these words to me. "It is just right the way it is and you let it alone." He told me as I remember that my name was given to him by revelation with several other names and I would have been put into the quorum a year previous but Bro[ther]. Geo[rge]. A. Smith suggested that it might raise a question & comment if B[righam]. Y[oung]. Jr. was put in place of Bro[ther] A[masa] M Lyman apostatized; and if Jos[eph]. F. S[mith]. was now put in to the Quorum it could make no differ[e]nce as I B[righam]. Y[oung]. Jr was ordained an apostle and would take his place in the Quorum according to that ordination. I am satisfied and thank God that I am worthy to be an apostle of the Lord an especial witness of the Lord Jesus Christ. I attended Meeting with first Presidency and Twelve to day. Several Matters were discussed and decided. one Subject was decided after full discussion that Jos[eph] F Smith stood ahead and out ranked Brigham Young [Jr.] in the Quorum of Apost[le]s. the vote was unanimous. As there is a vacancy in the Quo[rum]. of Apostles Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow reqeusted each of us to hand in the names of two men. The two names that I submitted were Rulon S. Wells and Joseph W. McMurrin. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Journal History; Minutes; Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; Marriner Wood Merrill, Diary; Abraham Owen Woodruff, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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