-- Jan 4, 1898
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] [Quarterly meeting of Apostles] President Lorenzo Snow ... There are two things required of us as apostles, a perfect union among ourselves, and a perfect union with the First Presidency. If this [is brought about, may not need to die but be translated] He referred to the advanced age of Pres[iden]t Wilford Woodruff, and the fact that his first counselor Bro[ther] Geo[rge] Q. Cannon was doing some things that we could not approve of. This makes no difference as it is our duty to sustain him. The loss of $100,000 more or less is as nothing in comparison with our failing to sustain the First Presidency. Disunion in our midst would be sweet morsel for our enemies. It is the right of the twelve apostles to make known to the Presidency their suggestions on any matter of importance where the interest of the Church is at stake and in some cases it is our duty to express our feelings. After we have expressed our feelings it is then our duty to sustain the Presidency in their plans although they may be in opposition to our own feelings. After a free expression of our feelings we should sustain them, hit or miss, live or die. The Lord does not always select religious men to do His work, but he selects men of strong will and determination. I feel it in my bones that all will be well if we will be true to one other and sustain the First Presidency. Heber J. Grant ... Expressed himself freely on the question of asking the Presidency to share their financial burdens with the apostles. Did not feel that it was right for men like Frank J. Cannon to be selected to represent the Church. Felt it was an outrage that Frank was used as he was and also that the Church's official paper should be edited by John Q. Cannon I expressed it as my opinion that we should ask the Presidency in a respectful manner for a knowledge of the affairs of the Church, and protest against such men as Frank Cannon being employed, and then if the Presidency did not wish to make any changes or to trust us with the business of the Church I was in for sustaining the Presidency. I explained that there was no malice in my heart and that I did not want to injure any man, but neither did I want any man to have the honor of the Church intrusted to him that was not worthy. I felt to say with reference to the Presidency. "Even though they slay me, yet will I trust in them." ... (1)
-- Jan 5, 1898
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] Meeting at 10.30 a.m. Our conversation in relation to first presidency was resumed. We are all thoroughly convinced that Presidents Woodruff & Smith are all right but Pres[ident] C. is wrong in many things in financial business. I proposed that, we trust the people with the labor of helping the church out of its indebtedness we must keep in touch with the people. There were present Pres[ident] L. S., F. D. R., B. Y., Jno. H. S. Geo[rge] T., H. J. G., Jno. W. T., M. W. M. & O. Woodruff 9 in all and we seem to be agreed. Met at 3 p.m. It was agreed that Pres[ident] Snow lay our feelings before the presidency and one or two others of the Quorum should be in perfect harmony & knowledge of financial affairs. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Sunday, Dec 26, 1897
-- Sunday, Dec 26, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Heber J. Grant and I called at Brigham Young's home. We had a long talk over the financial condition of the Church. We also determined to insist that under existing conditions that the Councilors of the President must consult the apostles on leading questions. (1)
-- Jan 4, 1898
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [Quorum of 12 met at 10 a.m. President Snow called on Brother Woodruff and then Brother Taylor.] Then Pres[ident] Snow spoke on condition of first presidency followed by Bro[ther] Teasdale (who was in favor of our minding our own business) Jno H. S., B.Y. & F. D. R. we all had complaints to make I wanted a T in T appointed to release Pres[ident] W. and for the First Presidency to correct all mistakes especially Pres[ident] Cannon so that he would not be humiliated when the first Quorum was dissolved, Jno Q. C. & Frank C. would be relieved as soon as the Twelve managed matters. Bro[ther] Richards did not agree with me I related a dream about relief coming to Pres[ident] W. [met again in the afternoon and continued the discussion.] (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Heber J. Grant and I called at Brigham Young's home. We had a long talk over the financial condition of the Church. We also determined to insist that under existing conditions that the Councilors of the President must consult the apostles on leading questions. (1)
-- Jan 4, 1898
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [Quorum of 12 met at 10 a.m. President Snow called on Brother Woodruff and then Brother Taylor.] Then Pres[ident] Snow spoke on condition of first presidency followed by Bro[ther] Teasdale (who was in favor of our minding our own business) Jno H. S., B.Y. & F. D. R. we all had complaints to make I wanted a T in T appointed to release Pres[ident] W. and for the First Presidency to correct all mistakes especially Pres[ident] Cannon so that he would not be humiliated when the first Quorum was dissolved, Jno Q. C. & Frank C. would be relieved as soon as the Twelve managed matters. Bro[ther] Richards did not agree with me I related a dream about relief coming to Pres[ident] W. [met again in the afternoon and continued the discussion.] (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Dec 16, 1897
-- Dec 16, 1897
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [[Temple meeting 11 a.m. with W. W., G. Q. C., J. F. S., L. S., F. D. R., B. Y., J. H. S., Geo[rge] F., H. J. G., A. Lund. In discussion it was noted, "Adam is our father and God and no use to discuss it with Josephites or any one else." ... "Question on ceremony of marriage sealing couples who have never had their endowments; do their children need to be sealed to them in the Temple when they come to have their endowments. Answer, No. It is all done."]] (1)
-- Saturday, Dec 25, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
I spent the day with my family. I ate dinner at Sarah's. I received the folowing from President Lorenzo Snow.
Dec. 25, 1897
Apostle John Henry Smith
Dear Brother.
Will it be possible for you to meet with myself and others on matters of Importance Sunday noon. At No. 37 Canyon Road. Respectfully.
Lorenzo Snow
I answered I would do so with pleasure.
My son Geo. A. had a nice Christmas tree with Santa Claus who distributed a lot of presents to the children of the neighborhood. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [[Temple meeting 11 a.m. with W. W., G. Q. C., J. F. S., L. S., F. D. R., B. Y., J. H. S., Geo[rge] F., H. J. G., A. Lund. In discussion it was noted, "Adam is our father and God and no use to discuss it with Josephites or any one else." ... "Question on ceremony of marriage sealing couples who have never had their endowments; do their children need to be sealed to them in the Temple when they come to have their endowments. Answer, No. It is all done."]] (1)
-- Saturday, Dec 25, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
I spent the day with my family. I ate dinner at Sarah's. I received the folowing from President Lorenzo Snow.
Dec. 25, 1897
Apostle John Henry Smith
Dear Brother.
Will it be possible for you to meet with myself and others on matters of Importance Sunday noon. At No. 37 Canyon Road. Respectfully.
Lorenzo Snow
I answered I would do so with pleasure.
My son Geo. A. had a nice Christmas tree with Santa Claus who distributed a lot of presents to the children of the neighborhood. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Oct 14, 1897
-- Oct 14, 1897
[Temple] [George F. Gibbs to Lorenzo Snow, Oct. 14, 1897] The question was considered today in the council of First Presidency and apostles, whether adults who had not received their endowments should be permitted to enter the temple to be sealed to their parents. The question was decided in the negative. (1)
-- During 1897, November
First issue of Improvement Era published. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Anderson, Devery; The Development of LDS Temple Worship, 1846-2000: A Documentary History, http://amzn.to/TempleWorship
2 - Ludlow, Daniel H. editor, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Publishing, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 4, Appendix 2: A Chronology of Church History, http://amzn.to/eG0DIp
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Temple] [George F. Gibbs to Lorenzo Snow, Oct. 14, 1897] The question was considered today in the council of First Presidency and apostles, whether adults who had not received their endowments should be permitted to enter the temple to be sealed to their parents. The question was decided in the negative. (1)
-- During 1897, November
First issue of Improvement Era published. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Anderson, Devery; The Development of LDS Temple Worship, 1846-2000: A Documentary History, http://amzn.to/TempleWorship
2 - Ludlow, Daniel H. editor, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Publishing, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 4, Appendix 2: A Chronology of Church History, http://amzn.to/eG0DIp
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, 10/12/1897
-- 10/12/1897
At meeting of all the apostles except Grant and Merill, Pres. Snow let out on Adam being our father and God. How beautiful the thought - it brot [sic] God nearer to us. Bro Franklin [D. Richards] said it made him thrill through his whole body - it was new & it was inspiring. I followed. (1)
-- Wednesday, Oct 13, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
All of the Apostles but Bros. Heber J. Grant and M. W. Merrill met at the Temple. Bros. Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, and A. H. Lurid spoke.
All of the Presidency met with the Apostles and F. F. Hintze and talked over the Mission to the holy land. It was decided to make settlement in Palestine.
Prest. Lorenzo Snow asked me to speak on the effect of President Wilford Woodruff's sermon on Politics during conference. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Brigham Young Jr. diary, Church Archives
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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At meeting of all the apostles except Grant and Merill, Pres. Snow let out on Adam being our father and God. How beautiful the thought - it brot [sic] God nearer to us. Bro Franklin [D. Richards] said it made him thrill through his whole body - it was new & it was inspiring. I followed. (1)
-- Wednesday, Oct 13, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
All of the Apostles but Bros. Heber J. Grant and M. W. Merrill met at the Temple. Bros. Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, and A. H. Lurid spoke.
All of the Presidency met with the Apostles and F. F. Hintze and talked over the Mission to the holy land. It was decided to make settlement in Palestine.
Prest. Lorenzo Snow asked me to speak on the effect of President Wilford Woodruff's sermon on Politics during conference. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Brigham Young Jr. diary, Church Archives
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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More History?
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Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Oct 7, 1897
-- Thursday, Oct 7, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
President Wilford Woodruffs talk yesterday in Conference has created a sensation in this City.
My son George is very poorly.
The following named brethren met in the Apostles room in the Temple at 2 p.m.: Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman,
John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, Anthon H. Lurid, Matthias F. Cowley, Abraham O. Woodruff, and Geo. F. Gibbs as Clerk. Prests. Woodruff, Cannon, and Smith, also Young and Lyman gave some good advice and a charge to our incoming brethren.
Prest. Geo. Q. Cannon was mouth in ordaining Matthias F. Cowley. Prest. Wilford Woodruff was mouth in ordaining his son Abraham O. Woodruff. All of the Presidency and Twelve except Bro. Heber J. Grant had their hands on these brethren's heads. (1)
-- 10/12/1897
At meeting of all the apostles except Grant and Merill, Pres. Snow let out on Adam being our father and God. How beautiful the thought - it brot [sic] God nearer to us. Bro Franklin [D. Richards] said it made him thrill through his whole body - it was new & it was inspiring. I followed. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Brigham Young Jr. diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
President Wilford Woodruffs talk yesterday in Conference has created a sensation in this City.
My son George is very poorly.
The following named brethren met in the Apostles room in the Temple at 2 p.m.: Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman,
John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, Anthon H. Lurid, Matthias F. Cowley, Abraham O. Woodruff, and Geo. F. Gibbs as Clerk. Prests. Woodruff, Cannon, and Smith, also Young and Lyman gave some good advice and a charge to our incoming brethren.
Prest. Geo. Q. Cannon was mouth in ordaining Matthias F. Cowley. Prest. Wilford Woodruff was mouth in ordaining his son Abraham O. Woodruff. All of the Presidency and Twelve except Bro. Heber J. Grant had their hands on these brethren's heads. (1)
-- 10/12/1897
At meeting of all the apostles except Grant and Merill, Pres. Snow let out on Adam being our father and God. How beautiful the thought - it brot [sic] God nearer to us. Bro Franklin [D. Richards] said it made him thrill through his whole body - it was new & it was inspiring. I followed. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Brigham Young Jr. diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Sep 30, 1897
-- Thursday, Sep 30, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, and Anthon H. Lund, with Geo. F. Gibbs and clerk, met at the Temple at 11 a.m.
Heber J. Grant was not able to come.
Matthias S. Cowley and Abraham Owen Woodruff were selected to fill the vacancies in the Council of Apostles.
A letter written some days ago by President Wilford Woodruff to the 19 made the request that his son be appointed one of the Apostles. I drove my family out.
Joseph W. McMurrin was selected to fill the Seventies. (1)
-- Sep 30, 1897
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. Salt Lake. I attended meeting with the First Presidency and Twelve at 11 a. m. Some minor business was attended to, when Owen Woodruff and Matthias F. Cowley were selected by the First Presidency and President Snow to fill the vacancies in the Quorum of the Twelve. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, and Anthon H. Lund, with Geo. F. Gibbs and clerk, met at the Temple at 11 a.m.
Heber J. Grant was not able to come.
Matthias S. Cowley and Abraham Owen Woodruff were selected to fill the vacancies in the Council of Apostles.
A letter written some days ago by President Wilford Woodruff to the 19 made the request that his son be appointed one of the Apostles. I drove my family out.
Joseph W. McMurrin was selected to fill the Seventies. (1)
-- Sep 30, 1897
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. Salt Lake. I attended meeting with the First Presidency and Twelve at 11 a. m. Some minor business was attended to, when Owen Woodruff and Matthias F. Cowley were selected by the First Presidency and President Snow to fill the vacancies in the Quorum of the Twelve. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Sep 9, 1897
-- Sep 9, 1897
[Apostle Franklin D. Richards Diary] Resolved that council of the Apostles accepts the Presidency of the Church and sustains Lorenzo Snow as its president Each spoke Cannon & Smith will make a statement of church liabilities to the council. Some verbal explanations were made. (1)
Meeting of the Presidency and Apostles at the Temple at 11:30 A.M. Present: Pres[iden]ts. W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, L[orenzo]. Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith and G[eorge]. Teasdale. Pres[ident]. J[oseph]. F. Smith and Elder A[nthon]. H. Lund at Parsons Ranch [Nevada]; B[righam]. Young [Jr.] at Fruitland [New Mexico], F[rancis]. M. Lyman in the South; H[eber]. J. Grant sick.
The subject of filling vacancies in the Council of the Twelve and Seventies was considered, and it was decided to notify all the Apostles to come to the City to attend the regular meeting on the 30th inst., to counsel on this subject. Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon expressed the desire that in filling the vacancies nothing should intervene of a personal or partisan character, to prevent the mind and will of the Lord being carried out in the selections that would be made. Pres[ident]. Snow stated that applications were being made by Saints coming from a distance to view the interior of the Temple. It was decided that persons who had received their endowments might be permitted to see the Temple when it was not being used for the endowments.
It was also decided that persons who have not received their endowments, whether children or adults, should not be permitted to witness a marriage in the Temple. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary Excerpts of Franklin D. Richards, 1887-1897, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Apostle Franklin D. Richards Diary] Resolved that council of the Apostles accepts the Presidency of the Church and sustains Lorenzo Snow as its president Each spoke Cannon & Smith will make a statement of church liabilities to the council. Some verbal explanations were made. (1)
Meeting of the Presidency and Apostles at the Temple at 11:30 A.M. Present: Pres[iden]ts. W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, L[orenzo]. Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith and G[eorge]. Teasdale. Pres[ident]. J[oseph]. F. Smith and Elder A[nthon]. H. Lund at Parsons Ranch [Nevada]; B[righam]. Young [Jr.] at Fruitland [New Mexico], F[rancis]. M. Lyman in the South; H[eber]. J. Grant sick.
The subject of filling vacancies in the Council of the Twelve and Seventies was considered, and it was decided to notify all the Apostles to come to the City to attend the regular meeting on the 30th inst., to counsel on this subject. Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon expressed the desire that in filling the vacancies nothing should intervene of a personal or partisan character, to prevent the mind and will of the Lord being carried out in the selections that would be made. Pres[ident]. Snow stated that applications were being made by Saints coming from a distance to view the interior of the Temple. It was decided that persons who had received their endowments might be permitted to see the Temple when it was not being used for the endowments.
It was also decided that persons who have not received their endowments, whether children or adults, should not be permitted to witness a marriage in the Temple. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary Excerpts of Franklin D. Richards, 1887-1897, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Aug 13, 1897
-- Aug 13, 1897
The High Council of the S[alt]. L[ake]. Stake met as per adjournment, at 10 A.M., the Presidency and all members of the Council present. Prayer was offered by Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose. Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon announced that if there was no objection, the decision would now be rendered. Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose then read the complaint, the finding of the Stake Presidency, and their decision, as follows:
Salt Lake City, Utah, July 30, 1897. To The Presidency and High Council
Of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion. Dear Brethren:–
We hereby prefer a charge against Brother Moses Thatcher of apostasy and un- Christian-like conduct, exhibited in public speeches, private conversations, in interviews through newspapers and in other ways, showing a departure from the spirit of the Gospel and the doctrine and discipline of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, such as to forfeit his right to fellowship and standing in the Church.
Your brethren,
Brigham Young [Jr.],
Francis M. Lyman,
Heber J. Grant.
Apostasy, as has been argued here, varies in its extent. In a general way apostasy means revolt. It is so defined in the Dictionary. But the Prophet Joseph Smith says in this connection: "The moment we revolt at anything which comes from God, the devil takes power". (Compendium, page 288). On this ground "apostasy" includes any revolt or departure from a rule or regulation, established by the Lord, whether in person or by his appointed servants.
We consider that Moses Thatcher exhibited an apostate spirit and was un-Christian- like in his conduct:
First. In his interview published in the Salt Lake Tribune, which he has admitted to be in the main correct, as to his views though not as to his exact language, he there virtually charges the authorities of the Church with bad faith, in declaring, first, that they would not interfere in politics, and next, that they intended to and would so interfere, and that this "practically annulled their former declaration". He also announced his readiness to champion "the cause imperilled" by the latest declaration of the Church authorities.
Second. In giving to the public private correspondence between him and President Lorenzo Snow, which related only to Church and Quorum matters.
Third. By using language as follows in his reply to President Lorenzo Snow, published in the [Salt Lake] Tribune and [Salt Lake] Herald of November 11th, 1895:
"Although the judges before whom I am to be arraigned have nearly
expressed an opinion as to the merits of my case; although my accusers are to sit in
judgment over me; although a verdict has already been delivered against me and
without a hearing.
In a conversation with President Lorenzo Snow, on the train between Salt
Lake and Brigham City last Saturday, Nov. 7th, I was given the impression that I
have absolutely nothing to hope for in any other than a public hearing such as I now
request".
Fourth. In writing to President Lorenzo Snow, Nov[ember]. 11th, 1896, saying:
"I shall not trouble my brethren therefore to convene in a special meeting
named for Thursday at 2 o'clock P.M., in the Historian's Office". And this after the meeting had been called at his special request.
Fifth. By resorting to the quibble that he was "not invited" to the meeting one week alter, when he was notified that his case would be considered, and in stating, "since judgment in these matters has already been passed".
Sixth. In charging President Lorenzo Snow with publishing "matter in order to gratify the apparent curiosity of five young men", and describing his (Pres[ident]. Snow's explanations) as "a bitter and acrimonious communication".
Seventh. By endeavoring to make it appear that the authorities of the Church, in publishing the Declaration of Principles, had contradicted what they had previously announced in the Deseret News and an interview with the Salt Lake Times, as to the political liberty of the members of the Church. He used this language:
"As I have already stated, I understood the manifesto at the time it was
handed me for approval, just as I understand it now. While it ostensibly appeared not
to restrict the liberties of the people, yet there was no limitation to its application, and
in view of the fact that nearly every male member of the Church holds some office,
and, as there has, as yet, been no public decision announced as to the officers to be
controlled by it, there have arisen disputes and differences of opinions as to its intent.
This being true, and the danger being that it could be applied to restrict the liberties
of the people, I cannot sustain it. I thought then, as I think now, that such a course
would be a stultification. I had never dreamed that a condition would arise in my life
where I could not serve God fully and yet yield my complete allegiance to my country
and to my State. The spirit of the manifesto, as it appealed to me, was in violent
597 antagonism to all I had believed and publicly proclaimed for many years, and I could not, and, so far, have not been able to bring myself to a point where I believed I should yield my political judgment to any set of men, however praiseworthy their intentions.
When the manifesto was presented to me it appeared to my mind as a command on all to recognize the right of the Church authorities to control political concerns; it meant, as far as I was concerned, a recantation of the principles I had for years advocated—a receding from the ground I had occupied during the division movement, and, above all, it made me feel that I would be untrue to myself. I do not claim that I cannot be wrong; but with the light I have, the manifesto, (applied as its construction will allow, as it would be interpreted by men whose personal ambitions might control and subvert their sense of right) could be operated to the injury of the State". Eighth. While protesting against the mingling of religion and politics, he repeatedly thrust his differences with the Church into political speeches, as for instance in the Legislature at the close of the Senatorial contest, and at a reception given to him at Logan [Utah], Feb[ruary]. 12th, 1897, and also a reception to the Idaho Legislature at his house, Feb[ruary]. 21st, 1897.
"There is room in this new State for all societies and all organizations, but they must confine themselves within proper limits. The men who enacted the supreme law of this State, made a covenant with the citizens thereof and with this nation that certain things should be done and performed, and we must keep those covenants. He who desires peace and prosperity for Utah, will draw the line sharp between the rights of the citizens and the powers of the State and those of the Church. He who votes for the union of the two, or the overriding of the Church by the State, is no friend of Utah. He who invites the intervention of the Church in State matters is an enemy to Utah. If we think we can bring peace and continual prosperity to this new State by temporizing with this question, we will be mistaken.
"With the same honesty of purpose, but with a much more joyful heart, he had voted with his quorum to grant the Saints entire political freedom. He meant it then, he just as sincerely meant it now. He who thinks that because we are surrounded by the walls of Statehood that it is now safe to unsay that which has been said, to proclaim by word or act that there was any duplicity or double dealing in order to secure desired concessions, is mistaken. He had not laid aside his office in the Church to obtain political honors, but because he saw dire calamity confronting the people if this course were taken. His audience knew the position he had occupied for forty years on the question of liberty, and he could not now with one act expunge that record and stultify the avowed sentiments of a lifetime.
"He spoke of the struggles of the Mormon people in the early days, and dwelt on the relations between the Church and the State under a Republican form of government. He described the position he had taken on this subject, and reviewed some of the circumstances connected with the recent manifesto and his refusal to sigh it. He conceded that the Church had a right to discipline its members for the
598
infraction of Church rules, but it had no right to carry Church matters into political
affairs.["]
Ninth. In his own published explanation of the remarks he made in the Legislature about a higher allegiance, as follows:
"No legislator can keep his oath of office inviolate, if he or she allows the
officials of an ecclesiastical organization to control his actions within the province of
the State.
The day must come in Utah when he who (being an officer in the State) holds
a higher allegiance (to the chiefs of any alien or church organization) than that which
(under his solemn oath) belongs to the State, must not be a lawmaker in the halls of
the State".
Tenth. In the same article he uses this language:
"Doubtless a great struggle is now inaugurated in Utah, a struggle for
freedom, for liberty, for the integrity of free government, for the principles
incorporated in American institutions. If the State is to be controlled by the dictation
of the Church its sovereignty is lost and its independence is a myth, an iridescent
dream. It is a cause of profound gratitude and thankfulness that so many noble and
true women and men, chosen as the representatives of a great and earnest people,
have stood unflinchingly in the face of intense and unscrupulous opposition, day after
day, for more than half a hundred ballots, as exponents and advocates of the
principles of Jefferson and Jackson.
It is only in this spirit that Utah will continue redeemed from a thralldom as
obnoxious as that of African slavery or Russian serfdom".
And this:
"The State demands of its citizens and law-makers duty well and faithfully
performed under oath. The Church demands of its members, the same individual,
another and different thing. The `higher allegiance' to which I referred would require
obedience to the Church. Here is a conflict. Who is responsible? Under our State
Constitution the Church is responsible. That being so, the proper solution of the
conflict and difficulty is simple. Let the Church vacate the forbidden ground and all
will be well.
I repeat, those holding such 'higher allegiance' should find no place in the
halls of the Legislature".
Eleventh. The same ideas were elaborated in his speech introducing Mr. Warren Foster, at Logan, Feb[ruary]. 17th.
Twelfth. No matter what were his intentions, the affect of his utterances and course on the public mind was that he was fighting the Church on a vital question,. namely, the political liberty of the members of the Church. That he was the champion of freedom as against the chains which the Church was forging to bind them. That the Church was endeavoring to dominate the State and interfere with its functions, and he was opposing that attempt. That the leaders of the Church had promised political liberty to the people in order to obtain Statehood, and then had changed their policy and promulgated a new rule, to dominate them and restrict their political liberties, and were, thus guilty of double dealing
599 and Punic faith.
This is shown by the letter introduced by Brother Thatcher from the Presbyterian preacher at St. George [Utah], the article by the Catholic Priest at Denver [Colorado], introduced by Brother Grant, the letter written by Brother E[dwin]. G. Woolley, at St. George, the rallying around Brother Thatcher of the enemies of the Church, the endorsement of the hostile press, and the cheers of the multitude who were antagonistic to the Church leaders.
Thirteenth. The letter written by Elder B. H. Roberts to Brother Thatcher shows that Brother Roberts perceived the effect which had been produced on the public mind by their united course, and in not listening to the appeal thus made and not endeavoring to correct that wrong, there was an un-Christian-like spirit exhibited by Brother Thatcher.
We recognize the fact that Brother Thatcher's bodily afflictions have been great, and that they have weakened him in mind to some extent, or rather that they tended to cloud his brain while in the time of his greatest trials. This should be considered when the degree of his wrong is determined.
But Brother Thatcher evidently fostered the idea that his brethren of the Twelve, or some of them at least, were his enemies, and that they desired his injury, to crowd and crush him, and this affected his mind so much, perhaps, as his bodily infirmities. In this he was wrong as he now appears to perceive.
He also evidently allowed the idea to be magnified in his mind that he was under great obligations to his party, and that these were such as to overshadow his previous obligations to the priesthood and the Church. Yet there was nothing in them to prevent Brother Thatcher from consulting with his brethren in reference to matters so important, as affecting the welfare of the whole people.
Now as to the Argus matter: Brother Thatcher has cleared himself of the suspicion that he was financially interested in that paper, or was responsible for its utterances and cartoons. But he might have repudiated those libels and shameful pictures in some way, and we think he ought to have done so. The fact that prominent men have refrained from replying to or noticing falsehoods in the public prints reflecting on themselves, does not apply to nor does it touch the case of Brother Thatcher's neglecting to repudiate things that reflected upon his brethren and exalted him, and created the impression that he favored them. We think he erred in not condemning those things in some public manner.
As to his plea that he sustained the Church authorities so strongly that he would have gone to the middle of Africa, if they had whispered to him that this was their wish, the fact that he would not conform to the simple rule which they submitted to him for his signature, weighs very heavily in contrast.
But in all Brother Thatcher's departures for the true spirit of a servant of the Lord, he was laboring under a misapprehension of the purpose of the Church authorities and of the meaning of the rule in the Declaration of Principles. This was what led him to place them in a false light before the public, and bring them into disrepute, and cause disaffection and division among the Latter Day Saints.
The spirit he has now manifested, and his expression of willingness to do all in his power to make right such wrongs as have been brought about, though unintentionally, by his
600 course and writings, commends itself to our consideration. We are glad that light has come to him and that he can see he was in error when he set up his individual judgment against that of all the leading authorities of the Church.
It was a monstrous notion that all those leading brethren were guilty of double dealing and Punic faith. It was one that should make any man pause and reflect and ask himself if he himself was not in the wrong and had misjudged his brethren.
We are thankful that this investigation has been conducted in kindness and patience and deliberation, and with a desire to bring forth the truth.
Brother Thatcher had the right to place his case, as he viewed it, before his brethren with as much detail as he desired. Having done so he has submitted it to this Council in a spirit of humility, which is very gratifying to us, and we believe pleasing to the Lord.
It was also very gratifying to hear Brother Thatcher acknowledge the Apostles as the mouthpieces of the Lord, clothed with Authority as Prophets, Seers and Revelators, and acknowledge that they were seeking his salvation while probing his ailment to the very bottom. Such acknowledgments are indicative that Brother Thatcher is ready to comply with our decision, which is as follows:
DECISION.
We therefore decide that the charges against Brother Moses Thatcher have been sustained, and that in order to retain his standing and fellowship in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints he publish a statement to the satisfaction and approval of the Presidency of this Stake of Zion, fully covering the following points, viz:
That in taking the position that the authorities of the Church, by issuing the Declaration of Principles, on April 6th, 1896, acted in violation of pledges previously given, and contrary to what they had published in the Deseret News and given to the Salt Lake Times, he was in error and in the dark.
That he now sees there is no conflict between that declaration and their former utterances in reference to political affairs.
That he was mistaken in conveying the idea that the Church authorities desired and intended to unite Church and State, or to exercise undue influence in political affairs.
That wherein the public have been led to believe through his utterances that the leaders of the Church were forging chains to bind the members of the Church, an impression was created that he did not intend and does not wish to prevail.
That wherein he has placed the authorities of the Church in a false position, however unintentionally, he has done them an injustice and is ready to make such amends as lie in his power.
That he acknowledges the First Presidency and Council of the Apostles as God's servants, as Prophets, Seers, and revelators, and their authority as supreme in the Church.
That when one man is out of harmony with them in the enunciation of a rule for the guidance of the Church, he must submit to the rule or be regarded as not in full fellowship.
That no member of the Church has the right to oppose and bring into contempt any rule of the Church which has been formulated by proper authority, especially when it has been adopted by the Church as a body.
That he was in error in stating in his published letter to President Lorenzo Snow:
601
"During all these weary months, while friends and physicians believed that I
was on the verge of the grave, I was administered to only once by members of our
quorum, although day after day engagements made for that purpose were for reasons
unknown to me not kept".
In this connection he may state that one such engagement was not kept, but that this was not an intentional breach of promise.
That in speeches and published letters he has used expressions which had been better unsaid, and that he regrets their utterance.
That he knows of no higher allegiance or more solemn and binding obligations than those of a religious character, between a man and his God.
That in speaking of "chains", "oppression", "curtailment of liberty", "malice", "anger", "spite", and "revenge", he did not intend to reflect upon the authorities of the Church in any way, and is grieved that his language has been so construed.
That in failing to attend the meeting of the Twelve Apostles on November 12th, and again on November 19th, he made a grave mistake, which he now regrets, though he did not see it then in that light.
That he believes his brethren of the Apostles have been actuated by a desire for his salvation, and not his destruction, and that though their rebukes have been sharp, they were intended to bring him to a sense of his true position.
That wherein he has wronged any of his brethren by word, deed or improper understanding of their spirit and intent, he now asks their forgiveness.
That he has obtained light wherein he was in the dark, and can sustain in his faith and feelings the authorities of the church, its doctrines, rules and regulations, and desires the fellowship of the Church, and humbly asks forgiveness for all his faults. The findings and decision as read were unanimously sustained by vote of the Council. Adjourned till Wednesday, August 26th, at 7:30 P.M. Benediction by Councillor William Eddington.
Met; Pres[ident]. [Angus M.] Cannon decided as a testimony showed, Moses [Thatcher] was possessed of an apostate spirit, repentance demanded. Moses asked does this Council know of any other body to whom I could appeal. Pres[ident]. C[annon]. said Pres[ident]. [John] Taylor said he had right to call my case but no appeal could be sent to First Presidency from the Council. I was a little startled at Moses question knowing his belief in a higher tribunal or council than the Presidency. Pres[iden]t. C[annon]. gave him 30 days to write his acknowledgement. he asked for time. (1)
-- Wednesday, Aug 25, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] ... Prest. Wilford Woodruff, George Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, and myself with Geo. F. Gibbs met in the Temple. On motion of Franklin D. Richards, seconded by Lorenzo Snow, it was unanimously agreed Silas Sanford Smith should be ordained a Patriarch. President Wilford Woodruff instructed Joseph F. Smith to ordain him. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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The High Council of the S[alt]. L[ake]. Stake met as per adjournment, at 10 A.M., the Presidency and all members of the Council present. Prayer was offered by Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose. Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon announced that if there was no objection, the decision would now be rendered. Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose then read the complaint, the finding of the Stake Presidency, and their decision, as follows:
Salt Lake City, Utah, July 30, 1897. To The Presidency and High Council
Of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion. Dear Brethren:–
We hereby prefer a charge against Brother Moses Thatcher of apostasy and un- Christian-like conduct, exhibited in public speeches, private conversations, in interviews through newspapers and in other ways, showing a departure from the spirit of the Gospel and the doctrine and discipline of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, such as to forfeit his right to fellowship and standing in the Church.
Your brethren,
Brigham Young [Jr.],
Francis M. Lyman,
Heber J. Grant.
Apostasy, as has been argued here, varies in its extent. In a general way apostasy means revolt. It is so defined in the Dictionary. But the Prophet Joseph Smith says in this connection: "The moment we revolt at anything which comes from God, the devil takes power". (Compendium, page 288). On this ground "apostasy" includes any revolt or departure from a rule or regulation, established by the Lord, whether in person or by his appointed servants.
We consider that Moses Thatcher exhibited an apostate spirit and was un-Christian- like in his conduct:
First. In his interview published in the Salt Lake Tribune, which he has admitted to be in the main correct, as to his views though not as to his exact language, he there virtually charges the authorities of the Church with bad faith, in declaring, first, that they would not interfere in politics, and next, that they intended to and would so interfere, and that this "practically annulled their former declaration". He also announced his readiness to champion "the cause imperilled" by the latest declaration of the Church authorities.
Second. In giving to the public private correspondence between him and President Lorenzo Snow, which related only to Church and Quorum matters.
Third. By using language as follows in his reply to President Lorenzo Snow, published in the [Salt Lake] Tribune and [Salt Lake] Herald of November 11th, 1895:
"Although the judges before whom I am to be arraigned have nearly
expressed an opinion as to the merits of my case; although my accusers are to sit in
judgment over me; although a verdict has already been delivered against me and
without a hearing.
In a conversation with President Lorenzo Snow, on the train between Salt
Lake and Brigham City last Saturday, Nov. 7th, I was given the impression that I
have absolutely nothing to hope for in any other than a public hearing such as I now
request".
Fourth. In writing to President Lorenzo Snow, Nov[ember]. 11th, 1896, saying:
"I shall not trouble my brethren therefore to convene in a special meeting
named for Thursday at 2 o'clock P.M., in the Historian's Office". And this after the meeting had been called at his special request.
Fifth. By resorting to the quibble that he was "not invited" to the meeting one week alter, when he was notified that his case would be considered, and in stating, "since judgment in these matters has already been passed".
Sixth. In charging President Lorenzo Snow with publishing "matter in order to gratify the apparent curiosity of five young men", and describing his (Pres[ident]. Snow's explanations) as "a bitter and acrimonious communication".
Seventh. By endeavoring to make it appear that the authorities of the Church, in publishing the Declaration of Principles, had contradicted what they had previously announced in the Deseret News and an interview with the Salt Lake Times, as to the political liberty of the members of the Church. He used this language:
"As I have already stated, I understood the manifesto at the time it was
handed me for approval, just as I understand it now. While it ostensibly appeared not
to restrict the liberties of the people, yet there was no limitation to its application, and
in view of the fact that nearly every male member of the Church holds some office,
and, as there has, as yet, been no public decision announced as to the officers to be
controlled by it, there have arisen disputes and differences of opinions as to its intent.
This being true, and the danger being that it could be applied to restrict the liberties
of the people, I cannot sustain it. I thought then, as I think now, that such a course
would be a stultification. I had never dreamed that a condition would arise in my life
where I could not serve God fully and yet yield my complete allegiance to my country
and to my State. The spirit of the manifesto, as it appealed to me, was in violent
597 antagonism to all I had believed and publicly proclaimed for many years, and I could not, and, so far, have not been able to bring myself to a point where I believed I should yield my political judgment to any set of men, however praiseworthy their intentions.
When the manifesto was presented to me it appeared to my mind as a command on all to recognize the right of the Church authorities to control political concerns; it meant, as far as I was concerned, a recantation of the principles I had for years advocated—a receding from the ground I had occupied during the division movement, and, above all, it made me feel that I would be untrue to myself. I do not claim that I cannot be wrong; but with the light I have, the manifesto, (applied as its construction will allow, as it would be interpreted by men whose personal ambitions might control and subvert their sense of right) could be operated to the injury of the State". Eighth. While protesting against the mingling of religion and politics, he repeatedly thrust his differences with the Church into political speeches, as for instance in the Legislature at the close of the Senatorial contest, and at a reception given to him at Logan [Utah], Feb[ruary]. 12th, 1897, and also a reception to the Idaho Legislature at his house, Feb[ruary]. 21st, 1897.
"There is room in this new State for all societies and all organizations, but they must confine themselves within proper limits. The men who enacted the supreme law of this State, made a covenant with the citizens thereof and with this nation that certain things should be done and performed, and we must keep those covenants. He who desires peace and prosperity for Utah, will draw the line sharp between the rights of the citizens and the powers of the State and those of the Church. He who votes for the union of the two, or the overriding of the Church by the State, is no friend of Utah. He who invites the intervention of the Church in State matters is an enemy to Utah. If we think we can bring peace and continual prosperity to this new State by temporizing with this question, we will be mistaken.
"With the same honesty of purpose, but with a much more joyful heart, he had voted with his quorum to grant the Saints entire political freedom. He meant it then, he just as sincerely meant it now. He who thinks that because we are surrounded by the walls of Statehood that it is now safe to unsay that which has been said, to proclaim by word or act that there was any duplicity or double dealing in order to secure desired concessions, is mistaken. He had not laid aside his office in the Church to obtain political honors, but because he saw dire calamity confronting the people if this course were taken. His audience knew the position he had occupied for forty years on the question of liberty, and he could not now with one act expunge that record and stultify the avowed sentiments of a lifetime.
"He spoke of the struggles of the Mormon people in the early days, and dwelt on the relations between the Church and the State under a Republican form of government. He described the position he had taken on this subject, and reviewed some of the circumstances connected with the recent manifesto and his refusal to sigh it. He conceded that the Church had a right to discipline its members for the
598
infraction of Church rules, but it had no right to carry Church matters into political
affairs.["]
Ninth. In his own published explanation of the remarks he made in the Legislature about a higher allegiance, as follows:
"No legislator can keep his oath of office inviolate, if he or she allows the
officials of an ecclesiastical organization to control his actions within the province of
the State.
The day must come in Utah when he who (being an officer in the State) holds
a higher allegiance (to the chiefs of any alien or church organization) than that which
(under his solemn oath) belongs to the State, must not be a lawmaker in the halls of
the State".
Tenth. In the same article he uses this language:
"Doubtless a great struggle is now inaugurated in Utah, a struggle for
freedom, for liberty, for the integrity of free government, for the principles
incorporated in American institutions. If the State is to be controlled by the dictation
of the Church its sovereignty is lost and its independence is a myth, an iridescent
dream. It is a cause of profound gratitude and thankfulness that so many noble and
true women and men, chosen as the representatives of a great and earnest people,
have stood unflinchingly in the face of intense and unscrupulous opposition, day after
day, for more than half a hundred ballots, as exponents and advocates of the
principles of Jefferson and Jackson.
It is only in this spirit that Utah will continue redeemed from a thralldom as
obnoxious as that of African slavery or Russian serfdom".
And this:
"The State demands of its citizens and law-makers duty well and faithfully
performed under oath. The Church demands of its members, the same individual,
another and different thing. The `higher allegiance' to which I referred would require
obedience to the Church. Here is a conflict. Who is responsible? Under our State
Constitution the Church is responsible. That being so, the proper solution of the
conflict and difficulty is simple. Let the Church vacate the forbidden ground and all
will be well.
I repeat, those holding such 'higher allegiance' should find no place in the
halls of the Legislature".
Eleventh. The same ideas were elaborated in his speech introducing Mr. Warren Foster, at Logan, Feb[ruary]. 17th.
Twelfth. No matter what were his intentions, the affect of his utterances and course on the public mind was that he was fighting the Church on a vital question,. namely, the political liberty of the members of the Church. That he was the champion of freedom as against the chains which the Church was forging to bind them. That the Church was endeavoring to dominate the State and interfere with its functions, and he was opposing that attempt. That the leaders of the Church had promised political liberty to the people in order to obtain Statehood, and then had changed their policy and promulgated a new rule, to dominate them and restrict their political liberties, and were, thus guilty of double dealing
599 and Punic faith.
This is shown by the letter introduced by Brother Thatcher from the Presbyterian preacher at St. George [Utah], the article by the Catholic Priest at Denver [Colorado], introduced by Brother Grant, the letter written by Brother E[dwin]. G. Woolley, at St. George, the rallying around Brother Thatcher of the enemies of the Church, the endorsement of the hostile press, and the cheers of the multitude who were antagonistic to the Church leaders.
Thirteenth. The letter written by Elder B. H. Roberts to Brother Thatcher shows that Brother Roberts perceived the effect which had been produced on the public mind by their united course, and in not listening to the appeal thus made and not endeavoring to correct that wrong, there was an un-Christian-like spirit exhibited by Brother Thatcher.
We recognize the fact that Brother Thatcher's bodily afflictions have been great, and that they have weakened him in mind to some extent, or rather that they tended to cloud his brain while in the time of his greatest trials. This should be considered when the degree of his wrong is determined.
But Brother Thatcher evidently fostered the idea that his brethren of the Twelve, or some of them at least, were his enemies, and that they desired his injury, to crowd and crush him, and this affected his mind so much, perhaps, as his bodily infirmities. In this he was wrong as he now appears to perceive.
He also evidently allowed the idea to be magnified in his mind that he was under great obligations to his party, and that these were such as to overshadow his previous obligations to the priesthood and the Church. Yet there was nothing in them to prevent Brother Thatcher from consulting with his brethren in reference to matters so important, as affecting the welfare of the whole people.
Now as to the Argus matter: Brother Thatcher has cleared himself of the suspicion that he was financially interested in that paper, or was responsible for its utterances and cartoons. But he might have repudiated those libels and shameful pictures in some way, and we think he ought to have done so. The fact that prominent men have refrained from replying to or noticing falsehoods in the public prints reflecting on themselves, does not apply to nor does it touch the case of Brother Thatcher's neglecting to repudiate things that reflected upon his brethren and exalted him, and created the impression that he favored them. We think he erred in not condemning those things in some public manner.
As to his plea that he sustained the Church authorities so strongly that he would have gone to the middle of Africa, if they had whispered to him that this was their wish, the fact that he would not conform to the simple rule which they submitted to him for his signature, weighs very heavily in contrast.
But in all Brother Thatcher's departures for the true spirit of a servant of the Lord, he was laboring under a misapprehension of the purpose of the Church authorities and of the meaning of the rule in the Declaration of Principles. This was what led him to place them in a false light before the public, and bring them into disrepute, and cause disaffection and division among the Latter Day Saints.
The spirit he has now manifested, and his expression of willingness to do all in his power to make right such wrongs as have been brought about, though unintentionally, by his
600 course and writings, commends itself to our consideration. We are glad that light has come to him and that he can see he was in error when he set up his individual judgment against that of all the leading authorities of the Church.
It was a monstrous notion that all those leading brethren were guilty of double dealing and Punic faith. It was one that should make any man pause and reflect and ask himself if he himself was not in the wrong and had misjudged his brethren.
We are thankful that this investigation has been conducted in kindness and patience and deliberation, and with a desire to bring forth the truth.
Brother Thatcher had the right to place his case, as he viewed it, before his brethren with as much detail as he desired. Having done so he has submitted it to this Council in a spirit of humility, which is very gratifying to us, and we believe pleasing to the Lord.
It was also very gratifying to hear Brother Thatcher acknowledge the Apostles as the mouthpieces of the Lord, clothed with Authority as Prophets, Seers and Revelators, and acknowledge that they were seeking his salvation while probing his ailment to the very bottom. Such acknowledgments are indicative that Brother Thatcher is ready to comply with our decision, which is as follows:
DECISION.
We therefore decide that the charges against Brother Moses Thatcher have been sustained, and that in order to retain his standing and fellowship in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints he publish a statement to the satisfaction and approval of the Presidency of this Stake of Zion, fully covering the following points, viz:
That in taking the position that the authorities of the Church, by issuing the Declaration of Principles, on April 6th, 1896, acted in violation of pledges previously given, and contrary to what they had published in the Deseret News and given to the Salt Lake Times, he was in error and in the dark.
That he now sees there is no conflict between that declaration and their former utterances in reference to political affairs.
That he was mistaken in conveying the idea that the Church authorities desired and intended to unite Church and State, or to exercise undue influence in political affairs.
That wherein the public have been led to believe through his utterances that the leaders of the Church were forging chains to bind the members of the Church, an impression was created that he did not intend and does not wish to prevail.
That wherein he has placed the authorities of the Church in a false position, however unintentionally, he has done them an injustice and is ready to make such amends as lie in his power.
That he acknowledges the First Presidency and Council of the Apostles as God's servants, as Prophets, Seers, and revelators, and their authority as supreme in the Church.
That when one man is out of harmony with them in the enunciation of a rule for the guidance of the Church, he must submit to the rule or be regarded as not in full fellowship.
That no member of the Church has the right to oppose and bring into contempt any rule of the Church which has been formulated by proper authority, especially when it has been adopted by the Church as a body.
That he was in error in stating in his published letter to President Lorenzo Snow:
601
"During all these weary months, while friends and physicians believed that I
was on the verge of the grave, I was administered to only once by members of our
quorum, although day after day engagements made for that purpose were for reasons
unknown to me not kept".
In this connection he may state that one such engagement was not kept, but that this was not an intentional breach of promise.
That in speeches and published letters he has used expressions which had been better unsaid, and that he regrets their utterance.
That he knows of no higher allegiance or more solemn and binding obligations than those of a religious character, between a man and his God.
That in speaking of "chains", "oppression", "curtailment of liberty", "malice", "anger", "spite", and "revenge", he did not intend to reflect upon the authorities of the Church in any way, and is grieved that his language has been so construed.
That in failing to attend the meeting of the Twelve Apostles on November 12th, and again on November 19th, he made a grave mistake, which he now regrets, though he did not see it then in that light.
That he believes his brethren of the Apostles have been actuated by a desire for his salvation, and not his destruction, and that though their rebukes have been sharp, they were intended to bring him to a sense of his true position.
That wherein he has wronged any of his brethren by word, deed or improper understanding of their spirit and intent, he now asks their forgiveness.
That he has obtained light wherein he was in the dark, and can sustain in his faith and feelings the authorities of the church, its doctrines, rules and regulations, and desires the fellowship of the Church, and humbly asks forgiveness for all his faults. The findings and decision as read were unanimously sustained by vote of the Council. Adjourned till Wednesday, August 26th, at 7:30 P.M. Benediction by Councillor William Eddington.
Met; Pres[ident]. [Angus M.] Cannon decided as a testimony showed, Moses [Thatcher] was possessed of an apostate spirit, repentance demanded. Moses asked does this Council know of any other body to whom I could appeal. Pres[ident]. C[annon]. said Pres[ident]. [John] Taylor said he had right to call my case but no appeal could be sent to First Presidency from the Council. I was a little startled at Moses question knowing his belief in a higher tribunal or council than the Presidency. Pres[iden]t. C[annon]. gave him 30 days to write his acknowledgement. he asked for time. (1)
-- Wednesday, Aug 25, 1897
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] ... Prest. Wilford Woodruff, George Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, and myself with Geo. F. Gibbs met in the Temple. On motion of Franklin D. Richards, seconded by Lorenzo Snow, it was unanimously agreed Silas Sanford Smith should be ordained a Patriarch. President Wilford Woodruff instructed Joseph F. Smith to ordain him. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Aug 9, 1897
-- Aug 9, 1897
At 10 A.M., High Council Salt Lake Stake re-convened, as per adjournment, the Presidency and High Council all present. Prayer was offered by Councilor Edward Snelgrove.
Brother Moses Thatcher again appeared as a witness in his own behalf. He asked, "Why am I condemned for arguing against the union of Church and State, when such are the views of our leading brethren on that subject? And if I should differ from them is not this State and Nation guaranteeing freedom of speech and of the press?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher went on to argue that he ought not to be condemned by prejudice and rumor.
Councillor Elias A. Smith made the objection that this was argument and was out of order at this stage of the proceedings, and was sustained by Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon.
Bro[ther]. Thatcher then stated that of all the documentary evidences as to his public utterances to show the spirit of apostasy, only one was published before April 6th, 1896, when he was dropped from his quorum, and was that his letter to Elders Lorenzo Snow and B[righam]. Young [Jr.], giving reasons why he could not sign the Declaration of Principles. He went on to dilate on the action taken in presenting his name at Conference. He stated that he did not give that letter to the press. It was given by one of his sons to a reporter, believing it was the right thing to do. He presented a document containing a reply to what the brethren had charged him with. It was very voluminous and Bro[ther]. Thatcher being in feeble health, Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose offered to read for him. What was read consisted chiefly of the letters to President Lorenzo Snow, the latter's reply to the request of five young men for an explanation of the Thatcher case, also the chapter entitled "A Masterly Vindication", published in a pamphlet entitled "The Late Manifesto in Politics", by Calvin Reasoner. The tenor of the whole document was to show that Bro[ther]. Thatcher had labored long for the Church, used his means in various ways for its enterprises, and that his utterances about Church and State were in accord with the sentiments of the First Presidency, expressed in the interview with the Salt Lake Times, and on that he asked if he was to be condemned. He argued "But it may be said, are you so dense that you cannot see that another policy is now adopted? I do see it and for a long time past have seen it and have been sorely tried because I have not been able to see that wisdom which it may contain, but that has not been the chief trouble, for I could have gotten along with that as with some other things when willingly following the judgment of those wiser than I, but unfortunately for me, I had aligned myself with a political party, thinking it a proper thing to do, and that party claimed its dues. And paying those dues produced a conflict; covenants, agreements and pledges had also been entered into, the violation of which on my part seemed improper, dishonorable and dangerous. Statehood was desirable and it, as it appeared to me, could not be had unless our promises and pledges were redeemed. I contended for that and in doing so, aroused the opposition and antagonism of my superiors in the Church, whom I revered and loved and with whom I oft broke bread". Bro[ther]. Thatcher then dilated upon his sickness and the probability that he had used harsh words when irritable, but he could not see how these denoted apostasy or treachery. He solemnly declared that the thought of betraying his brethren had never entered his heart. He quoted from a letter written by Pres[ident]. John Taylor, which said: "I was not born a slave! I cannot, will not be a slave. I would not be a slave to God. I would be his servant, friend, his son; I'd go at his behest, but would not be his slave. I'd rather be extinct than be his slave". Bro[ther]. Thatcher went on to explain that after his suspension from exercising the functions of the Priesthood, and his deposition on Nov[ember]. 19, 1896, led to the publication of the correspondence between him and Pres[ident]. Snow. He related the circumstances attending his nomination for public office, and deprecated the idea that he was an apostate or an ambitious man. The judgment of the Council would be to him and his family of vast moment.
The speakers for the accused not having any questions to ask, Bro[ther]. Thatcher was cross- examined, and denied that he had any connection whatever with the Argus Publishing company. No article in it was ever submitted to him. As to the question of "Higher allegiance", he said "No person should hold a higher allegiance than to the Church". As to the declaration of Principles, he said he held the same views as he had done all the time. Some parts he could endorse, and others he could not endorse. His objection was there seemed to be in it a conflict with agreements and pledges made by us and the authorities of the Church, but it would be in conflict with the agreement passed at the Conference of 1891. The Declaration made at the Reconvened Convention of the Democratic Party protested against the union of Church and State, and proclaimed that we must be absolutely free in all political matters.
Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman asked that Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher should take the Declaration of Principles and underscore the sentences which he could not subscribe to.
The Document was read in full. Brother Thatcher replied that in view of the published declaration that there should be no union of Church and State, he could not see his way clear to sign that document. had it applied to certain leading officers and been made definite, he could have signed it.
Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose asked "what is there in that document that you object to?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "The place I have marked reads: `We declare that there has never been any attempt to curtail individual liberty—the personal liberty of any of the officers of the Church. The First Presidency and other leading officers did make certain suggestions to the people when the division on party liens took place. That movement was an entirely new departure and it was necessary, in order that a full benefit should not be lost which was hoped to result from the new political division, that people who were inexperienced should be warned against hasty and ill-advised action'". Bro[ther]. Thatcher said reference was made to political matters. Asked for other objections, he said he would have to read it over in order to name them all.
Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "In your speech to the Legislature did you meant hat your first and higher allegiance was to the State? Did you not mean that it was greater than to be a high official in the Church"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "No, I did not." Bro[ther]. Lyman: "What did you mean then?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I meant that anyone taking the oath to support the Constitution of the United States or the Constitution of this State and the laws thereof, and as a legislator, and believing that certain laws might be enacted through the influence of someone not a member of the Legislature through ecclesiastical influence, and would vote against his own conviction, thus acknowledging a higher allegiance. That is what I meant, nothing else".
Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose asked: "Do you meant that, as I think has been stated in this evidence, the time will come when any person who holds a higher allegiance than that which he holds to the State, shall not be allowed to sit in the Legislature"? "I had no such thought in my mind as that".
Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon: "Explain to us what you did mean." Brother Thatcher said: "A legislator had to take an oath to be obedient to the constitutional laws of the nation and State, he would thus be absolutely free to act according to his judgment, and if he wanted to vote for a man for Senator, and some one wanted him to vote for another against his wish, and he did that, he should not be a member of the Legislature.["] It was ecclesiastical influence in State matters, as he had explained, that he objected to. A number of questions were asked on this line, but no further explanations were elicited. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said, however, that he did consider that he would stultify himself if he signed the Declaration of Principles, on the ground explained in his testimony.
Elder Heber J. Grant: "Did Calvin reasoner publish his pamphlet at your request"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I think not. He got no information from me. I did not furnish him money to print it". In answer to further questions, Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "I am not aware that I have taken any political obligations upon me that the people are not acquainted with. I have strictly held to the pledge made by the people of the nation by the people of this State. I did not see the new policy. If I did it was too late to turn around. I may be all wrong, and I may be a fanatic, but I am sincere in the stand I took".
Brother Grant asked if Bro[ther]. Thatcher would be willing to publish a card expressing disapproval of the statements made in Reasoner's pamphlet and of the impression they had created. Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered, that if an injustice had been done to any of his brethren by anything he had said or done, and it was pointed out to him, he would do anything in his power to make it right. If he had not been under political obligations, it would have been quite different with him.
Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "Don't you think you made a mistake in not signing the Declaration of Principles"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I have not felt that I made any mistake under the circumstances". He made an extended reply, speaking of the suffering he had endured. He thought the Latter-day Saints would have been a great deal better if none of the Apostles had accepted offers to speak on political matters.
Bro[ther]. Lyman asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher whether he thought that in the trouble between him and his brethren that he had been right in everything he had done. Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered: "I think I have been wrong in a great many things, but I did not think the brethren were justified in proceeding against me so suddenly when I was on the verge of the grave; and I so feel now."
Bro[ther]. Grant read from Bro[ther]. Thatcher's remarks when Warren Foster visited Logan, and asked if he did not then reflect on those who signed the Declaration of Principles. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied he did not.
Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "What was the change of policy he had referred to on the part of the Church". To this Bro[ther]. Thatcher made a lengthy statement about the Interview with the Times, the card published by the First Presidency and the Declaration of Principles, which he thought conflicted one with the other.
Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher to define the difference between the Declaration of Principles and the interview in the Times. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied: "In the Interview it states that persons were left free to vote for the party they pleased". Bro[ther]. Penrose: "What is the change you speak about"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher related a number of things which had no bearing on the question, and was pressed by Bro[ther]. Penrose to show wherein the change of policy of the Church which he claimed had been made. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied that he could not explain any better than he had done, but he thought if he had more time he could show that there was a difference of policy in the Declaration of Principles to that declared in the Times interview.
Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon announced that the Council would adjourn until next morning at 10 A.M., to give Bro[ther]. Thatcher time to underscore the portions of the Declaration of Principles he could not sustain, and also prepare himself to answer Bro[ther]. Penrose's question. The High Council then adjourned. Meeting in B[righam]. Y[oung]. Schoolhouse Trial of M[oses]. Thatcher resumed. Moses seems determined to fight every inch of ground he takes notes & is as technicle as a man can well be. Much of the ground is gone over time and again. (1)
-- Aug 10, 1897
The High Council reassembled on the [Moses] Thatcher case at 10 A.M. The Stake Presidency and all members were present. Prayer was offered by Councillor Elias A. Smith.
Brother Moses Thatcher was ready to reply to the questions by Elders F[rancis]. M. Lyman and C[harles]. W. Penrose. In response to Elder Lyman's request that he mark such portions of the Declaration of Principles as he could not endorse, he presented the "Rule Adopted at the April Conference in 1896," with the objectionable parts underscored, as follows:
First. We unanimously agree to and promulgate as a rule that should always be
observed in the Church by every leading official thereof, that before accepting any position,
political or otherwise, which would interfere with the proper and complete discharge of his
ecclesiastical duties, and before accepting a nomination or entering into any engagements to
perform new duties, said official should apply to the proper authorities and learn from them
whether he can consistently with the obligations already entered into with the Church upon
assuming his office, take upon himself the added duties and labors and responsibilities of the
new position. To maintain proper discipline and order in the Church, we deem it absolutely
necessary, and in asserting this rule, we do no consider that we are infringing in the least
degree upon the individual rights of the citizen.
Brother Thatcher stated that he understood that to be in direct conflict with the authoritative declarations contained in the celebrated [Salt Lake] Times interview, made by Pres[iden]ts. [Wilford] Woodruff and [George Q.] Cannon. These were read once more by Bro[ther]. Penrose in behalf of Brother Thatcher. An objection was raised by Councillor John Clark to the repetitions of these readings, and Bro[ther]. Penrose also stated that he could see no good purpose in them, but still was willing to read to relieve Bro[ther]. Thatcher from the strain, if the Council so desired. He also asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher to point out in the Declaration of Principles wherein there was any new policy or any change of policy from that announced in the Times interview. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said that if the whole of his document was read it would give the answer in question so far as he could make reply.
Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon then explained to Bro[ther]. Thatcher that argument was not proper at this stage of the proceedings. All that was wanted was an answer to the questions that had been propounded, but on motion from Councillor Nicholson, seconded by Councillor Richards, the whole of the statement and argument of Bro[ther]. Thatcher was read to the Council by Bro[ther]. Penrose. It consisted of extracts from letters, documents and pamphlets already introduced, also parts of an open letter addressed by Bro[ther]. Thatcher to Pres[ident]. Jos[eph]. F. Smith and Elder John Henry Smith, Resolutions passed by Democratic Conventions, etc., and repetitions of Bro[ther]. Thatcher's definition of the term "higher allegiance." At the conclusion of the reading, Bro[ther]. Penrose again put his question: "Wherein is there a change of policy announced in the Declaration of Principles from that contained in the Times interview"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "In the document that has just been read I think that question has been entirely covered. I take the position that there is a difference". Bro[ther]. Penrose: "Just point out the words in the Declaration of Principles where the change of policy is made". Brother Thatcher: "The difference is, as I have explained and has placed me where I am". Bro[ther]. Penrose asked further questions with the view of getting Bro[ther]. Thatcher to point out where the Declaration of Principles interfered with the political liberties of members of the Church in the exercise of the voting power. Also wherein the leading authorities of the Church whereby that Declaration under any restrictions, except that they should, when desiring to enter into obligations which would interfere with the performance of their duties, consult with their presiding officers before assuming those added obligations. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied: "That portion which has been read here today does not seem to". "Is not that the portion you object to"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered: "That is the portion that I object to". Bro[ther]. Thatcher admitted that it was proper for such officials before taking such steps, to seek counsel from the proper authorities, but claimed that he was under obligations to his party which he could not consistently break, and he did not think a citizen had any right to refuse to accept a nomination if his party demanded it of him. He admitted, however, that a man in business, holding a position under an employer or a Directory, would have no right to engage in political affairs which would take him away from his duties, without the consent of his employers or the resignation of his position.
After much time had been consumed on this point, Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "Bro[ther]. Moses, why could you not do as Bro[ther]. Roberts did"?
Br[other]. Thatcher: "Do as he did, and not have a full conviction that the Lord required it? Not for ten thousand worlds, unless I had a revelation that God required it, and I do not believe there is any necessity for requiring that".
Bro[ther]. Lyman: "Bro[ther]. Moses, why not submit to the authorities and the rule of Church discipline"?
Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "For the reason that I would break my pledges with my party and also with the nation".
Adjourned till 5 P.M.
Council reconvened at 5 P.M., all parties being present. Bro[ther]. Heber J. Grant asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher some questions in relation to the solemn obligations which were entered into by Apostles before being ordained, and whether they were not required above all things to devote themselves and their entire time if required, if their entire lives in the interest of the Church. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied that these promises were made, but he considered there was a general understanding that there should be an entire separation between political and ecclesiastical matters. Some further questions were put in relations to matters immediately preceding his being dropped from the Apostleship and Priesthood, but no further [light] was shed on the matter. At the request of Councillor Davis, Bro[ther]. Penrose read the Declaration of Principles in full, and on further questioning as to his reasons for not accepting it, Bro[ther]. Thatcher stated that he thought he had fully explained that before the Council.
Bro[ther]. Aaron F. Farr, Jun[ior]., witness for the accused, stated that before the cartoon was published in the Argus, he heard of it and in company with Mr. Noble Warrum he waited upon Mr. Bloor the editor, and asked if he might see it. Mr. Bloor would not permit him to do so. Bro[ther]. Farr urged that if it was like what had been described it would injure Mr. Thatcher a great deal, and asked that it might be suppressed. Mr. Bloor asked whether Mr. Thatcher had requested him to make that request. He replied no, that Mr. Thatcher did not know anything about it. Mr. Bloor then said that it was none of Mr. Farr's business and they would publish it. On still urging that it would injure Mr. Thatcher, Bloor answered: "We are doing things our own way. It is the Church we are fighting".
Bro[ther]. Isaac D. Haines for the accused, testified, that he had been associated with Bro[ther]. Thatcher for 12 years, in sickness as well as in health, and found him always one of the most careful, prayerful and conscientious brethren he had ever met. Even when under the most excruciating pain, he had spoken kindly and respectfully of his file leaders. In answer to questions from Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Bro[ther]. Haines stated that in his prayers with the family, Bro[ther]. Thatcher had prayed for light and also that he might accept the decision of this Council. Bro[ther]. Thatcher had manifested a very humble spirit and a desire to obtain light, especially since this investigation had commenced. In cross-examination, Bro[ther]. Haines admitted that it would have been reasonable for Bro[ther]. Thatcher to have gone to Pres[ident]. Woodruff for light, and that the decision of the President of the Church was final.
In answer to Elder Brigham Young [Jr.], Elder Haines said he was present at Bro[ther]. Thatcher's house when he, Bro[ther]. Young, presented to Bro[ther]. Thatcher Pres[ident]. Woodruff's request for him to resign his position as one of the Trustees of the B[righam]. Y[oung]. College, and Bro[ther]. Thatcher refused to resign. Bro[ther]. Haines said that Bro[ther]. Thatcher refused to resign, in his presence. Bro[ther]. Haines expressed his friendship for Bro[ther]. Thatcher and his belief that his long sickness had impaired his powers so much that he was not able to see it in a proper light. Bro[ther]. Haines denied emphatically ever saying in relation to Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon that he ought to go off and die.
Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher, Jun[ior]., questioned by his father, stated that he had been reprimanded by his father for speaking lightly of the General Authorities of the Church. Also that he and Severin Jeppesen waited upon Pres[ident]. Lorenzo Snow and asked him to come and administer to his father, when Bro[ther] Snow promised to bring Pres[ident]. Woodruff with him and some other brethren. He did not come, and the family did not know why.
In answer to questions from Elder Brigham Young, Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Jun[ior]., said the brethren referred to whom he had spoken against were Bro[ther]. Brigham Young, Bro[ther]. Snow, Bro[ther]. [Franklin D.] Richards and he thought Bro[ther]. Lyman. He felt that the brethren had not kept their word with him, in promising that nothing would be done with his father until he got well. The impression he received from the brethren was that nothing would be done in his father's case until he was fully recovered. He told that to his father, and he thought they had not kept their word.
Bro[ther]. Severin Jeppeson, in answer to Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher, said, Pres[ident]. Woodruff gave to witness his consent for Bro[ther]. Thatcher to go away while he was sick and said he would relieve him from all responsibility, and nothing would be done in his case until he was well enough. That was in 1896. Witness also saw Pres[ident]. L[orenzo]. Snow, when the word was out that Bro[ther]. Thatcher's case was to [be] called up, and explained to Bro[ther]. Snow Bro[ther]. Thatcher's condition. Bro[ther]. Snow advised him to explain this to Brother Woodruff. Pres[ident]. Woodruff said "Tell Brother Moses to go off and take a rest. Take good care of him and nurse him well, and I hope he will soon recover from his sickness". That was in the latter part of July, 1896. Witness was with Moses Thatcher Jun[ior]. when Bro[ther]. Snow promised to visit Bro[ther]. Thatcher. In answer to questions from Bro[ther]. Penrose, Bro[ther]. Jeppeson said he had not seen Bro[ther]. Snow since to ask him why he did not come, but other authorities of the Church came and administered to Bro[ther]. Thatcher during his sickness. He remembered that Bishop Kessler, Bro[ther]. Roberts, John Henry Smith, Bro[ther]. Penrose, Bro[ther]. Patterson, Bishop Beatie and others administered to him.
Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher here said he would withdraw the expression that he had made in his reply to Pres[ident]. Snow that engagements to administer to him were for reasons unknown to him unkept.
Bro[ther]. Geo[rge]. T. Thatcher, witness for the accused, testified that his father had nothing to do with the publication of the copy of the letter sent to Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow and Elder Brigham Young, giving his reason why he could not sign the rules of Church discipline. The facts were these: Bro[ther]. Geo[rge]. E. Hyde who had been to Conference came in and reported that Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher's name had not been presented, and they two were responsible for the publication of a copy of the letter. They thought the public ought to know Bro[ther]. Thatcher's reasons for not signing the Declaration, and it was given to the papers after 12 o'clock at night. Reporters had previously been to interview Bro[ther]. Thatcher, but did not see him. The witness said he did not act under instructions from his father nor do it by his permission. In answer to Bro[ther]. Jos[eph]. E. Taylor, the witness said he did not inform the papers that he furnished the copy of the letter without consulting his father.
Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher said he had no more testimony to offer at that time.
Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman testified in rebuttal that it was contemplated to bring Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher to trial when his son applied to have the matter postponed. But the Presidency and Apostles all agreed that Bro[ther]. Thatcher should not be brought to trial until he was in better health. He could have come at any time, however, and made matters right without a trial. When the October Conference came and nothing having been done by Bro[ther]. Thatcher, it was necessary that some explanation be given. That was the reason why Pres[ident]. Woodruff and others made the remarks which were published. As to the Declaration of Principles, it was submitted to the whole Council between the meetings of Conference. It was read over and some few corrections made, but the whole Council did not have it as long as Bro[ther]. Thatcher did. It was not true that Bro[ther]. Roberts was urged to sign it. He was perfectly reconciled with his brethren before a scratch of the pen was made on that document. All the authorities signed it without any argument. Bro[ther]. Lyman further testified that when he and Br[other]. John W. Taylor visited Bro[ther]. Thatcher it was not with any reference whatever to politics.
Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Lyman whether he understood that there was any breach of agreement between the brethren and Bro[ther]. Thatcher in the remarks made concerning him by the brethren at the Conference. Br[other]. Lyman replied: "No". In consequence of Bro[ther]. Moses' attitude and writing, it was necessary that some explanations should be made. Bro[ther]. Thatcher was not brought to trial, as was promised, until he was able to appear. Pres[ident]. Woodruff frequently urged the Apostles to take up Bro[ther]. Thatcher's case. The explanations at Conference originated with Pres[ident]. Woodruff.
Bro[ther]. Thatcher asked Bro[ther]. Lyman whether it was not known for a long time he was sick so that he was not able to stand on his feet. Bro[ther]. Lyman replied that he knew Bro[ther]. Thatcher had been in poor health and was very weakly. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "I did not think that Pres[ident]. Woodruff or any of the brethren would think to put me on trial at the Conference." Bro[ther]. Lyman replied: "That six months had elapsed from April. Bro[ther]. Thatcher was not put on trial, but some explanations of [the] case were made. You were in error, Bro[ther]. Thatcher, and would not be reconciled; the trouble could have been settled very easily, but as you would do nothing something had to be said by way of explanation".
The testimony now being closed, the Council was adjourned till 9 o'clock Wednesday morning. Benediction by Councillor John Nicholson.
10 a.m. continued to push the case. Bro[ther] M[oses]. [Thatcher] will die hard but there is but one chance for him through humiliation put himself in the hands of his brethren nothing else will save his membership in the church and I am inclined to believe that he will not sacrifice that. 3.30 p.m. Resumed investigation Moses obdurate. Bro[ther]. [Heber J.] Grant is finding out Moses is weak I am not much better prolonged effort and strain is telling on others of the Council. (1)
Endnotes:
1 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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At 10 A.M., High Council Salt Lake Stake re-convened, as per adjournment, the Presidency and High Council all present. Prayer was offered by Councilor Edward Snelgrove.
Brother Moses Thatcher again appeared as a witness in his own behalf. He asked, "Why am I condemned for arguing against the union of Church and State, when such are the views of our leading brethren on that subject? And if I should differ from them is not this State and Nation guaranteeing freedom of speech and of the press?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher went on to argue that he ought not to be condemned by prejudice and rumor.
Councillor Elias A. Smith made the objection that this was argument and was out of order at this stage of the proceedings, and was sustained by Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon.
Bro[ther]. Thatcher then stated that of all the documentary evidences as to his public utterances to show the spirit of apostasy, only one was published before April 6th, 1896, when he was dropped from his quorum, and was that his letter to Elders Lorenzo Snow and B[righam]. Young [Jr.], giving reasons why he could not sign the Declaration of Principles. He went on to dilate on the action taken in presenting his name at Conference. He stated that he did not give that letter to the press. It was given by one of his sons to a reporter, believing it was the right thing to do. He presented a document containing a reply to what the brethren had charged him with. It was very voluminous and Bro[ther]. Thatcher being in feeble health, Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose offered to read for him. What was read consisted chiefly of the letters to President Lorenzo Snow, the latter's reply to the request of five young men for an explanation of the Thatcher case, also the chapter entitled "A Masterly Vindication", published in a pamphlet entitled "The Late Manifesto in Politics", by Calvin Reasoner. The tenor of the whole document was to show that Bro[ther]. Thatcher had labored long for the Church, used his means in various ways for its enterprises, and that his utterances about Church and State were in accord with the sentiments of the First Presidency, expressed in the interview with the Salt Lake Times, and on that he asked if he was to be condemned. He argued "But it may be said, are you so dense that you cannot see that another policy is now adopted? I do see it and for a long time past have seen it and have been sorely tried because I have not been able to see that wisdom which it may contain, but that has not been the chief trouble, for I could have gotten along with that as with some other things when willingly following the judgment of those wiser than I, but unfortunately for me, I had aligned myself with a political party, thinking it a proper thing to do, and that party claimed its dues. And paying those dues produced a conflict; covenants, agreements and pledges had also been entered into, the violation of which on my part seemed improper, dishonorable and dangerous. Statehood was desirable and it, as it appeared to me, could not be had unless our promises and pledges were redeemed. I contended for that and in doing so, aroused the opposition and antagonism of my superiors in the Church, whom I revered and loved and with whom I oft broke bread". Bro[ther]. Thatcher then dilated upon his sickness and the probability that he had used harsh words when irritable, but he could not see how these denoted apostasy or treachery. He solemnly declared that the thought of betraying his brethren had never entered his heart. He quoted from a letter written by Pres[ident]. John Taylor, which said: "I was not born a slave! I cannot, will not be a slave. I would not be a slave to God. I would be his servant, friend, his son; I'd go at his behest, but would not be his slave. I'd rather be extinct than be his slave". Bro[ther]. Thatcher went on to explain that after his suspension from exercising the functions of the Priesthood, and his deposition on Nov[ember]. 19, 1896, led to the publication of the correspondence between him and Pres[ident]. Snow. He related the circumstances attending his nomination for public office, and deprecated the idea that he was an apostate or an ambitious man. The judgment of the Council would be to him and his family of vast moment.
The speakers for the accused not having any questions to ask, Bro[ther]. Thatcher was cross- examined, and denied that he had any connection whatever with the Argus Publishing company. No article in it was ever submitted to him. As to the question of "Higher allegiance", he said "No person should hold a higher allegiance than to the Church". As to the declaration of Principles, he said he held the same views as he had done all the time. Some parts he could endorse, and others he could not endorse. His objection was there seemed to be in it a conflict with agreements and pledges made by us and the authorities of the Church, but it would be in conflict with the agreement passed at the Conference of 1891. The Declaration made at the Reconvened Convention of the Democratic Party protested against the union of Church and State, and proclaimed that we must be absolutely free in all political matters.
Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman asked that Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher should take the Declaration of Principles and underscore the sentences which he could not subscribe to.
The Document was read in full. Brother Thatcher replied that in view of the published declaration that there should be no union of Church and State, he could not see his way clear to sign that document. had it applied to certain leading officers and been made definite, he could have signed it.
Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose asked "what is there in that document that you object to?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "The place I have marked reads: `We declare that there has never been any attempt to curtail individual liberty—the personal liberty of any of the officers of the Church. The First Presidency and other leading officers did make certain suggestions to the people when the division on party liens took place. That movement was an entirely new departure and it was necessary, in order that a full benefit should not be lost which was hoped to result from the new political division, that people who were inexperienced should be warned against hasty and ill-advised action'". Bro[ther]. Thatcher said reference was made to political matters. Asked for other objections, he said he would have to read it over in order to name them all.
Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "In your speech to the Legislature did you meant hat your first and higher allegiance was to the State? Did you not mean that it was greater than to be a high official in the Church"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "No, I did not." Bro[ther]. Lyman: "What did you mean then?" Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I meant that anyone taking the oath to support the Constitution of the United States or the Constitution of this State and the laws thereof, and as a legislator, and believing that certain laws might be enacted through the influence of someone not a member of the Legislature through ecclesiastical influence, and would vote against his own conviction, thus acknowledging a higher allegiance. That is what I meant, nothing else".
Elder C[harles]. W. Penrose asked: "Do you meant that, as I think has been stated in this evidence, the time will come when any person who holds a higher allegiance than that which he holds to the State, shall not be allowed to sit in the Legislature"? "I had no such thought in my mind as that".
Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon: "Explain to us what you did mean." Brother Thatcher said: "A legislator had to take an oath to be obedient to the constitutional laws of the nation and State, he would thus be absolutely free to act according to his judgment, and if he wanted to vote for a man for Senator, and some one wanted him to vote for another against his wish, and he did that, he should not be a member of the Legislature.["] It was ecclesiastical influence in State matters, as he had explained, that he objected to. A number of questions were asked on this line, but no further explanations were elicited. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said, however, that he did consider that he would stultify himself if he signed the Declaration of Principles, on the ground explained in his testimony.
Elder Heber J. Grant: "Did Calvin reasoner publish his pamphlet at your request"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I think not. He got no information from me. I did not furnish him money to print it". In answer to further questions, Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "I am not aware that I have taken any political obligations upon me that the people are not acquainted with. I have strictly held to the pledge made by the people of the nation by the people of this State. I did not see the new policy. If I did it was too late to turn around. I may be all wrong, and I may be a fanatic, but I am sincere in the stand I took".
Brother Grant asked if Bro[ther]. Thatcher would be willing to publish a card expressing disapproval of the statements made in Reasoner's pamphlet and of the impression they had created. Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered, that if an injustice had been done to any of his brethren by anything he had said or done, and it was pointed out to him, he would do anything in his power to make it right. If he had not been under political obligations, it would have been quite different with him.
Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "Don't you think you made a mistake in not signing the Declaration of Principles"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "I have not felt that I made any mistake under the circumstances". He made an extended reply, speaking of the suffering he had endured. He thought the Latter-day Saints would have been a great deal better if none of the Apostles had accepted offers to speak on political matters.
Bro[ther]. Lyman asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher whether he thought that in the trouble between him and his brethren that he had been right in everything he had done. Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered: "I think I have been wrong in a great many things, but I did not think the brethren were justified in proceeding against me so suddenly when I was on the verge of the grave; and I so feel now."
Bro[ther]. Grant read from Bro[ther]. Thatcher's remarks when Warren Foster visited Logan, and asked if he did not then reflect on those who signed the Declaration of Principles. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied he did not.
Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "What was the change of policy he had referred to on the part of the Church". To this Bro[ther]. Thatcher made a lengthy statement about the Interview with the Times, the card published by the First Presidency and the Declaration of Principles, which he thought conflicted one with the other.
Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher to define the difference between the Declaration of Principles and the interview in the Times. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied: "In the Interview it states that persons were left free to vote for the party they pleased". Bro[ther]. Penrose: "What is the change you speak about"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher related a number of things which had no bearing on the question, and was pressed by Bro[ther]. Penrose to show wherein the change of policy of the Church which he claimed had been made. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied that he could not explain any better than he had done, but he thought if he had more time he could show that there was a difference of policy in the Declaration of Principles to that declared in the Times interview.
Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon announced that the Council would adjourn until next morning at 10 A.M., to give Bro[ther]. Thatcher time to underscore the portions of the Declaration of Principles he could not sustain, and also prepare himself to answer Bro[ther]. Penrose's question. The High Council then adjourned. Meeting in B[righam]. Y[oung]. Schoolhouse Trial of M[oses]. Thatcher resumed. Moses seems determined to fight every inch of ground he takes notes & is as technicle as a man can well be. Much of the ground is gone over time and again. (1)
-- Aug 10, 1897
The High Council reassembled on the [Moses] Thatcher case at 10 A.M. The Stake Presidency and all members were present. Prayer was offered by Councillor Elias A. Smith.
Brother Moses Thatcher was ready to reply to the questions by Elders F[rancis]. M. Lyman and C[harles]. W. Penrose. In response to Elder Lyman's request that he mark such portions of the Declaration of Principles as he could not endorse, he presented the "Rule Adopted at the April Conference in 1896," with the objectionable parts underscored, as follows:
First. We unanimously agree to and promulgate as a rule that should always be
observed in the Church by every leading official thereof, that before accepting any position,
political or otherwise, which would interfere with the proper and complete discharge of his
ecclesiastical duties, and before accepting a nomination or entering into any engagements to
perform new duties, said official should apply to the proper authorities and learn from them
whether he can consistently with the obligations already entered into with the Church upon
assuming his office, take upon himself the added duties and labors and responsibilities of the
new position. To maintain proper discipline and order in the Church, we deem it absolutely
necessary, and in asserting this rule, we do no consider that we are infringing in the least
degree upon the individual rights of the citizen.
Brother Thatcher stated that he understood that to be in direct conflict with the authoritative declarations contained in the celebrated [Salt Lake] Times interview, made by Pres[iden]ts. [Wilford] Woodruff and [George Q.] Cannon. These were read once more by Bro[ther]. Penrose in behalf of Brother Thatcher. An objection was raised by Councillor John Clark to the repetitions of these readings, and Bro[ther]. Penrose also stated that he could see no good purpose in them, but still was willing to read to relieve Bro[ther]. Thatcher from the strain, if the Council so desired. He also asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher to point out in the Declaration of Principles wherein there was any new policy or any change of policy from that announced in the Times interview. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said that if the whole of his document was read it would give the answer in question so far as he could make reply.
Pres[ident]. A[ngus]. M. Cannon then explained to Bro[ther]. Thatcher that argument was not proper at this stage of the proceedings. All that was wanted was an answer to the questions that had been propounded, but on motion from Councillor Nicholson, seconded by Councillor Richards, the whole of the statement and argument of Bro[ther]. Thatcher was read to the Council by Bro[ther]. Penrose. It consisted of extracts from letters, documents and pamphlets already introduced, also parts of an open letter addressed by Bro[ther]. Thatcher to Pres[ident]. Jos[eph]. F. Smith and Elder John Henry Smith, Resolutions passed by Democratic Conventions, etc., and repetitions of Bro[ther]. Thatcher's definition of the term "higher allegiance." At the conclusion of the reading, Bro[ther]. Penrose again put his question: "Wherein is there a change of policy announced in the Declaration of Principles from that contained in the Times interview"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "In the document that has just been read I think that question has been entirely covered. I take the position that there is a difference". Bro[ther]. Penrose: "Just point out the words in the Declaration of Principles where the change of policy is made". Brother Thatcher: "The difference is, as I have explained and has placed me where I am". Bro[ther]. Penrose asked further questions with the view of getting Bro[ther]. Thatcher to point out where the Declaration of Principles interfered with the political liberties of members of the Church in the exercise of the voting power. Also wherein the leading authorities of the Church whereby that Declaration under any restrictions, except that they should, when desiring to enter into obligations which would interfere with the performance of their duties, consult with their presiding officers before assuming those added obligations. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied: "That portion which has been read here today does not seem to". "Is not that the portion you object to"? Bro[ther]. Thatcher answered: "That is the portion that I object to". Bro[ther]. Thatcher admitted that it was proper for such officials before taking such steps, to seek counsel from the proper authorities, but claimed that he was under obligations to his party which he could not consistently break, and he did not think a citizen had any right to refuse to accept a nomination if his party demanded it of him. He admitted, however, that a man in business, holding a position under an employer or a Directory, would have no right to engage in political affairs which would take him away from his duties, without the consent of his employers or the resignation of his position.
After much time had been consumed on this point, Bro[ther]. Lyman asked: "Bro[ther]. Moses, why could you not do as Bro[ther]. Roberts did"?
Br[other]. Thatcher: "Do as he did, and not have a full conviction that the Lord required it? Not for ten thousand worlds, unless I had a revelation that God required it, and I do not believe there is any necessity for requiring that".
Bro[ther]. Lyman: "Bro[ther]. Moses, why not submit to the authorities and the rule of Church discipline"?
Bro[ther]. Thatcher: "For the reason that I would break my pledges with my party and also with the nation".
Adjourned till 5 P.M.
Council reconvened at 5 P.M., all parties being present. Bro[ther]. Heber J. Grant asked Bro[ther]. Thatcher some questions in relation to the solemn obligations which were entered into by Apostles before being ordained, and whether they were not required above all things to devote themselves and their entire time if required, if their entire lives in the interest of the Church. Bro[ther]. Thatcher replied that these promises were made, but he considered there was a general understanding that there should be an entire separation between political and ecclesiastical matters. Some further questions were put in relations to matters immediately preceding his being dropped from the Apostleship and Priesthood, but no further [light] was shed on the matter. At the request of Councillor Davis, Bro[ther]. Penrose read the Declaration of Principles in full, and on further questioning as to his reasons for not accepting it, Bro[ther]. Thatcher stated that he thought he had fully explained that before the Council.
Bro[ther]. Aaron F. Farr, Jun[ior]., witness for the accused, stated that before the cartoon was published in the Argus, he heard of it and in company with Mr. Noble Warrum he waited upon Mr. Bloor the editor, and asked if he might see it. Mr. Bloor would not permit him to do so. Bro[ther]. Farr urged that if it was like what had been described it would injure Mr. Thatcher a great deal, and asked that it might be suppressed. Mr. Bloor asked whether Mr. Thatcher had requested him to make that request. He replied no, that Mr. Thatcher did not know anything about it. Mr. Bloor then said that it was none of Mr. Farr's business and they would publish it. On still urging that it would injure Mr. Thatcher, Bloor answered: "We are doing things our own way. It is the Church we are fighting".
Bro[ther]. Isaac D. Haines for the accused, testified, that he had been associated with Bro[ther]. Thatcher for 12 years, in sickness as well as in health, and found him always one of the most careful, prayerful and conscientious brethren he had ever met. Even when under the most excruciating pain, he had spoken kindly and respectfully of his file leaders. In answer to questions from Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Bro[ther]. Haines stated that in his prayers with the family, Bro[ther]. Thatcher had prayed for light and also that he might accept the decision of this Council. Bro[ther]. Thatcher had manifested a very humble spirit and a desire to obtain light, especially since this investigation had commenced. In cross-examination, Bro[ther]. Haines admitted that it would have been reasonable for Bro[ther]. Thatcher to have gone to Pres[ident]. Woodruff for light, and that the decision of the President of the Church was final.
In answer to Elder Brigham Young [Jr.], Elder Haines said he was present at Bro[ther]. Thatcher's house when he, Bro[ther]. Young, presented to Bro[ther]. Thatcher Pres[ident]. Woodruff's request for him to resign his position as one of the Trustees of the B[righam]. Y[oung]. College, and Bro[ther]. Thatcher refused to resign. Bro[ther]. Haines said that Bro[ther]. Thatcher refused to resign, in his presence. Bro[ther]. Haines expressed his friendship for Bro[ther]. Thatcher and his belief that his long sickness had impaired his powers so much that he was not able to see it in a proper light. Bro[ther]. Haines denied emphatically ever saying in relation to Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon that he ought to go off and die.
Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher, Jun[ior]., questioned by his father, stated that he had been reprimanded by his father for speaking lightly of the General Authorities of the Church. Also that he and Severin Jeppesen waited upon Pres[ident]. Lorenzo Snow and asked him to come and administer to his father, when Bro[ther] Snow promised to bring Pres[ident]. Woodruff with him and some other brethren. He did not come, and the family did not know why.
In answer to questions from Elder Brigham Young, Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Jun[ior]., said the brethren referred to whom he had spoken against were Bro[ther]. Brigham Young, Bro[ther]. Snow, Bro[ther]. [Franklin D.] Richards and he thought Bro[ther]. Lyman. He felt that the brethren had not kept their word with him, in promising that nothing would be done with his father until he got well. The impression he received from the brethren was that nothing would be done in his father's case until he was fully recovered. He told that to his father, and he thought they had not kept their word.
Bro[ther]. Severin Jeppeson, in answer to Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher, said, Pres[ident]. Woodruff gave to witness his consent for Bro[ther]. Thatcher to go away while he was sick and said he would relieve him from all responsibility, and nothing would be done in his case until he was well enough. That was in 1896. Witness also saw Pres[ident]. L[orenzo]. Snow, when the word was out that Bro[ther]. Thatcher's case was to [be] called up, and explained to Bro[ther]. Snow Bro[ther]. Thatcher's condition. Bro[ther]. Snow advised him to explain this to Brother Woodruff. Pres[ident]. Woodruff said "Tell Brother Moses to go off and take a rest. Take good care of him and nurse him well, and I hope he will soon recover from his sickness". That was in the latter part of July, 1896. Witness was with Moses Thatcher Jun[ior]. when Bro[ther]. Snow promised to visit Bro[ther]. Thatcher. In answer to questions from Bro[ther]. Penrose, Bro[ther]. Jeppeson said he had not seen Bro[ther]. Snow since to ask him why he did not come, but other authorities of the Church came and administered to Bro[ther]. Thatcher during his sickness. He remembered that Bishop Kessler, Bro[ther]. Roberts, John Henry Smith, Bro[ther]. Penrose, Bro[ther]. Patterson, Bishop Beatie and others administered to him.
Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher here said he would withdraw the expression that he had made in his reply to Pres[ident]. Snow that engagements to administer to him were for reasons unknown to him unkept.
Bro[ther]. Geo[rge]. T. Thatcher, witness for the accused, testified that his father had nothing to do with the publication of the copy of the letter sent to Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow and Elder Brigham Young, giving his reason why he could not sign the rules of Church discipline. The facts were these: Bro[ther]. Geo[rge]. E. Hyde who had been to Conference came in and reported that Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher's name had not been presented, and they two were responsible for the publication of a copy of the letter. They thought the public ought to know Bro[ther]. Thatcher's reasons for not signing the Declaration, and it was given to the papers after 12 o'clock at night. Reporters had previously been to interview Bro[ther]. Thatcher, but did not see him. The witness said he did not act under instructions from his father nor do it by his permission. In answer to Bro[ther]. Jos[eph]. E. Taylor, the witness said he did not inform the papers that he furnished the copy of the letter without consulting his father.
Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher said he had no more testimony to offer at that time.
Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman testified in rebuttal that it was contemplated to bring Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher to trial when his son applied to have the matter postponed. But the Presidency and Apostles all agreed that Bro[ther]. Thatcher should not be brought to trial until he was in better health. He could have come at any time, however, and made matters right without a trial. When the October Conference came and nothing having been done by Bro[ther]. Thatcher, it was necessary that some explanation be given. That was the reason why Pres[ident]. Woodruff and others made the remarks which were published. As to the Declaration of Principles, it was submitted to the whole Council between the meetings of Conference. It was read over and some few corrections made, but the whole Council did not have it as long as Bro[ther]. Thatcher did. It was not true that Bro[ther]. Roberts was urged to sign it. He was perfectly reconciled with his brethren before a scratch of the pen was made on that document. All the authorities signed it without any argument. Bro[ther]. Lyman further testified that when he and Br[other]. John W. Taylor visited Bro[ther]. Thatcher it was not with any reference whatever to politics.
Bro[ther]. Penrose asked Bro[ther]. Lyman whether he understood that there was any breach of agreement between the brethren and Bro[ther]. Thatcher in the remarks made concerning him by the brethren at the Conference. Br[other]. Lyman replied: "No". In consequence of Bro[ther]. Moses' attitude and writing, it was necessary that some explanations should be made. Bro[ther]. Thatcher was not brought to trial, as was promised, until he was able to appear. Pres[ident]. Woodruff frequently urged the Apostles to take up Bro[ther]. Thatcher's case. The explanations at Conference originated with Pres[ident]. Woodruff.
Bro[ther]. Thatcher asked Bro[ther]. Lyman whether it was not known for a long time he was sick so that he was not able to stand on his feet. Bro[ther]. Lyman replied that he knew Bro[ther]. Thatcher had been in poor health and was very weakly. Bro[ther]. Thatcher said: "I did not think that Pres[ident]. Woodruff or any of the brethren would think to put me on trial at the Conference." Bro[ther]. Lyman replied: "That six months had elapsed from April. Bro[ther]. Thatcher was not put on trial, but some explanations of [the] case were made. You were in error, Bro[ther]. Thatcher, and would not be reconciled; the trouble could have been settled very easily, but as you would do nothing something had to be said by way of explanation".
The testimony now being closed, the Council was adjourned till 9 o'clock Wednesday morning. Benediction by Councillor John Nicholson.
10 a.m. continued to push the case. Bro[ther] M[oses]. [Thatcher] will die hard but there is but one chance for him through humiliation put himself in the hands of his brethren nothing else will save his membership in the church and I am inclined to believe that he will not sacrifice that. 3.30 p.m. Resumed investigation Moses obdurate. Bro[ther]. [Heber J.] Grant is finding out Moses is weak I am not much better prolonged effort and strain is telling on others of the Council. (1)
Endnotes:
1 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Aug 6, 1897
-- Aug 6, 1897
[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [[Met with the High Council a-- B. Y. stated that when M. T. published his correspondence with President Snow in the "Tribune" he had betrayed his brethren. Meetings on the Thatcher case continued on the 9, 10 and 11 Aug., with B. Y. continuing to give a generally pessimistic prognosis regarding Moses.]] (1)
The High Council of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion met today at 10 A.M., to hear the case of Moses Thatcher, on trial for unchristianlike conduct and apostasy. The Council met in the office of the Presidency of the Stake, but subsequently adjourned to President [Brigham] Young's schoolhouse, inside the Eagle Gate, for better accommodations and more privacy. There were present the Presidency of the Stake, Angus M. Cannon, Jos[eph]. E. Taylor and Cha[rle]s. W. Penrose. The Council was organized as follows: One, William Eddington; 3, Orson A. Woolley (Alternate); 5, John T. Caine; 7, Edward Snelgrove (Alternate); 9, Elias A. Smith; 11, John Clark; 2, Geo[rge]. J. Taylor; 4, Anders W. Winberg; 6, Ja[me]s. P. Freeze; 8, Henry P. Richards; 10, John Nicholson; 12, David L. Davis. Prayer was offered by Councilor Orson A. Woolley. The accusers, namely, Brigham Young [Jr.], Francis M. Lyman and Heber J. Grant, and the accused, namely Moses Thatcher, were present and declared themselves ready for trial. Councillors Elias A. Smith and John Clark were the speakers for the accusers, Councillors John Nicholson and David L. Davis speakers for the accused. The charge was then read as follows:
Salt Lake City, Utah, July 30, 1897.
To the Presidency and High Council, Of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion.
Dear Brethren:–
We hereby prefer a charge against Brother Moses Thatcher of apostasy and un-
Christianlike conduct, exhibited in public speeches, private conversations, interviews through
newspapers and in other ways, showing a departure from the spirit of the Gospel and the
doctrine and discipline of the Church of Jesus Christ, such as to forfeit his right to fellowship
and standing in the Church.
Your brethren, Signed,
Brigham Young [Jr.],
Francis M. Lyman,
Heber J. Grant.
The High Council notice was read as follows:
Office of the Presidency of the Salt Lake Stake
of Zion, Salt Lake City, July 31, 1897.
Brother Moses Thatcher,
You are hereby notified to appear before the High Council of this Stake of Zion on
Friday, August 6th, 1897, at 10 A.M., at the Office of the Presidency of the Stake, Tithing
Buildings, to answer the following charges, viz: Apostasy and un-Christianlike conduct,
exhibited in public speeches, private conversations, in interviews through newspapers, and in
other ways, showing a departure from the spirit of the Gospel and the doctrines and discipline
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Please have all the evidence (witnesses and papers) you may require to proceed with
the hearing of your case.
WITNESS hand and seal of the High Council the day and year first above written.
Your Brother,
James D. Stirling,
Clerk of Council.
The response of Brother Thatcher was also read, viz:
Red Banks, Logan Canyon [Utah], Aug[ust]. 2, 1897.
James D. Stirling, Clerk of Council,
Salt Lake City.
Dear Brother:–
Your communication of July 31st, was handed me within the hour by Brother J. Z.
Stewart, of Logan, who was accompanied by Brother J. E. Carlisle of the same place.
Noting what you say, I am summoned to appear before the High Council of the Salt
Lake Stake of Zion, at the Tithing Office Buildings, at 10 A.M. on the 6th inst., to answer to
the charges of apostasy and unChristianlike conduct, exhibited in public speeches, private
conversations, and in interviews in newspapers, and in other ways showing a departure from
the spirit of the Gospel and the doctrine and discipline of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-
day Saints.
I shall make my arrangements accordingly, and unless something unforeseen occurs
making it impossible, I will meet the brethren of the High Council on the date named,
prepared to answer the charges as far as I an be prepared, without further detailed
specifications; which may appear in the hearing of the case. I send this to Logan by the hands
that conveyed your communication to me, addressing same to President Orson Smith, yours
having reached me in an open enclosure addressed to him, presumably by Pres[iden]t. Angus
M. Cannon.
Your brother in the Gospel,
Moses Thatcher.
Elder Brigham Young made the opening statement. After expressing his regrets that these proceedings had to be taken, he stated that from the death of president John Taylor, Brother Thatcher's course had been out of harmony with the spirit and teachings of the authorities of the Church. Brother Young related a number of things which took place previous to Bro[ther]. Thatcher's being excluded from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and from the Priesthood, including the incorrect charges he made against Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon, which he had never apologized for or sought to make right. Since the action of the Apostles in Brother Thatcher's case, he had given to the public press private letters, by which the speaker considered he had betrayed his brethren, and by his public and private utterances he had held them up to ridicule and disgrace.
Elder Francis M. Lyman corroborated the statement of Elder Young, spoke of the affection which had been entertained for Brother Thatcher by the Twelve and First Presidency, and their tenderness and patience in dealing with him in consideration of the serious condition of his health and his feeble state of body, but, the speaker said, Bro[ther]. Thatcher had taken a course to put bitterness into the hearts of many of the Latter-day Saints against the First Presidency and Twelve. He had been the standard bearer of apostates and those who felt ugly and wrathy towards the First Presidency and the Church. Bro[ther]. Thatcher had made it appear as though the leading authorities of the Church were going wrong, while he himself was in the right. Bro[ther]. Lyman read from the history of the Prophet Joseph Smith, in which the Prophet gave a key to the spirit of apostasy, and showed that this had been exemplified in Bro[ther]. Thatcher's course.
Elder Heber J. Grant endorsed the remarks of the previous speakers, and said they expected to prove from Bro[ther]. Thatcher's utterances, as published in the newspapers, that he had said things to bring the authorities of the Church into disrepute and which were calculated to destroy harmony and unity in the Church.
Brother Moses Thatcher said if he was able to see himself in the light and attitude which the brethren who had spoken viewed him, there would be only two things for him to do; either to put himself at once in the hands of this Council that they might determine what he should do, or to declare himself desirous of leaving the Church in which he had labored for so many years. Ever since he was fourteen and a half years of age, he had labored for the Gospel, and to be a member (to say nothing about official position) was worth far more to him than everything else on earth. He claimed that many things imputed to him was the work of busy-bodies. If he had done anything to betray his brethren, he was not conscious of it. If it was proven that he had done anything of that kind, God being his helper, he would make it right as soon as he could. He said "I have come here to get light, and I pray for the light to guide me aright". He spoke of the quarterly meetings of the Twelve that had been held and his understanding that they then held each other in fellowship. He thought he would be able to prove that he had not made some of the statements to which the brethren had alluded as coming from him.
Elder Brigham Young said he had some letters to introduce which had been published in the [Salt Lake] Tribune, and was told by the President of the Council that they would be admitted in evidence. An adjournment was taken till 2 P.M. At 2 o'clock the High Council reconvened, all members responding to the roll call.
Elder Brigham Young introduced the Salt Lake Tribune of Nov[ember]. 15th, 1896, containing an interview with Moses Thatcher, in which, speaking of the Declaration of Principles which he had refused to sign, he said, "I could not consent to the adoption of a rule that would affect the political liberty of so many people and give so great power to the Church authorities. I felt that it practically annulled the former declaration that there should be perfect freedom in political matters, and held that we were in honor bound to stand by the declaration". Also speaking of his nomination for the office of Senator of the United States, he said, "But if Utah, if Young Utah, feels that my election would be a vindication of that for which I have contended and would aid in preventing the forging of chains upon the people of this State, I should accept the office of Senator, should it be tendered me". Further he said: "Because of the stand I then took, I have been placed in the position of defending the cause imperilled by the address I refused to sign".
The Salt Lake Herald of Nov[ember]. 17th was put in evidence, which contained an interview with Moses Thatcher, Nov[ember]. 16th, in which he said, "I expressed my views in an interview which appeared in the Tribune recently, and in which I avowed myself a candidate".
As evidence that Bro[ther]. Thatcher had given private correspondence to the public newspapers, and used expressions in his letters conveying a false impression, prejudicial to the General Church Authorities, and which Bro[ther]. Young said was un-Christianlike conduct, the Salt Lake Tribune and Herald of Nov[ember]. 22nd were introduced. Also the letter of President Lorenzo Snow and he response of Moses Thatcher in the Salt Lake Tribune and Herald of December 13th, in which he attacked President Snow, and called his letter "a bitter and acrimonious communication". He also endeavored to place the Presiding Authorities in a false light concerning their attitude as to political affairs, making it appear that they were endeavoring to effect a union between Church and State and to dominate in political affairs. Brother Thatcher's remarks in the State Legislature as a defeated candidate in the Senatorial contest, were presented, also his remarks about Bro[ther]. Joseph Robinson in the same body, which had the same tendency and spirit. An address delivered by Moses Thatcher at a reception in Logan, Feb[ruary]. 12th was presented; also an article from the Logan Journal of Feb[ruary]. 11th, copied from the Salt Lake papers of Feb[ruary]. 8th, which was signed by Moses Thatcher; a speech at the Opera House Logan Feb[ruary]. 17th, and another speech at the reception given by Moses Thatcher at his residence in Salt Lake City, Feb[ruary]. 21st, and another on the 11th of March, all of which tended in the same direction, and showed hi antagonism to the policy of the leaders of the Church and were in the spirit of apostasy.
Elder Francis M. Lyman gave particulars of visits made by himself and others of the Twelve to Moses Thatcher, when he manifested a bitter and apostate spirit, and his conduct was unChristianlike. Brother Thatcher, he said, put a wrong construction on the Declaration of Principles. Brother Lyman stated that Elder B. H. Roberts had entertained some views corresponding with those of Brother Thatcher, but had seen his error and made amends and had signed the Declaration of Principles. Brother Thatcher's course and statements virtually charged the First Presidency, the Twelve, the Seven Presidents of Seventies, the Presiding Bishopric, and all who signed that Declaration of Principles with "stultifying" themselves. Elder Lyman spoke in reference to cartoons in the paper called the "Argus", in one of which Moses Thatcher was depicted as being crucified, and which held Pres[iden]t. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and others up to ridicule and contempt. Elder Lyman held Bro[ther]. Thatcher responsible for things contained in the Argus, because he had not repudiated them in any shape or form.
The Salt Lake Argus of Feb[ruary]. 6th, 1897, was introduced as evidence. This was objected to by Councilor John Nicholson, as there was no proof that Bro[ther]. Thatcher was connected with that paper.
Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman cross-examined, went over the ground again of his visit to Logan in company with Bro[ther]. John W. Taylor, to try and bring Bro[ther]. Thatcher into harmony with the First Presidency and Twelve.
In answer to Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Elder Lyman said, "yes, I considered that by your conduct at that time you exhibited the spirit of apostasy". "Also that by not repudiating those things in the Argus, which reflected on Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and exalted Moses Thatcher, you exhibited the spirit of apostasy". In answer to Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Elder Lyman explained that the reason why Bro[ther]. Thatcher was fellowshipped at the Quarterly meetings of the Twelve, was they hoped all the time he would come into harmony with them, but even when they met with Bro[ther]. Thatcher before going into the Temple at its dedication, and he had promised to reform, he merely submitted, but his reformation had not been genuine.
Bro[ther]. Thatcher asked whether it was not customary before partaking of the sacrament in the meetings of the Twelve, to say, "I have the utmost confidence in you and for you"? Elder Lyman answered, "Yes, sir, it is a fact, and you did not keep that good."
In answer to Bro[ther]. Thatcher's question, "Was not your mission to Logan a political one"? Brother Lyman replied, "It was not political at all; your being out of harmony with the brethren was the cause of all the trouble, and you could have made that right at any time, if you had so desired".
Elder Heber J. Grant presented the Salt Lake Argus, of Nov[ember]. 21st, 28, Dec[ember]. 19th and Feb[ruary]. 6th stating he did not care who was responsible for their publication, but the fact that Bro[ther]. Thatcher did not repudiate them was sufficient. Those cartoons aimed to belittle the Church Authorities. The paper was an enemy of the Church. Brother Thatcher's financial connection with the Argus, whether it existed or not, cut no figure in the matter. Elder Grant further introduced in evidence a letter written by Elder B. H. Roberts to Moses Thatcher, from Cincinnati, Ohio, dated Nov[ember]. 6th, 1896. Council adjourned till Saturday afternoon at 3 o'clock. Benediction by Councilor A[nders]. W. Winberg.
Met with High Council at T[ithing]. O[ffice]. at 10 a.m. Bro[ther] [Francis M.] Lyman H[eber]. J. Grant Bro[ther]. M[oses]. Thatcher and several of his friends present. I made opening statement recounting labors of Twelve & presidency with Bro[ther]. M[oses]. from the death of pres[ident]. [John] Taylor. My statement was well received tho[ugh] I read at the last from Cour. Stating in words of profet Jos[eph]. [Smith] that the one who betrays his brethren is a traitor and Bro[ther]. M[oses]. did it when he published correspondence between him and Pres[ident]. L[orenzo]. Snow in the "[Salt Lake] Tribune" Gave in long sc[r]eed of testimony culled from news papers etc. Bro[thers] Lyman & Grant testified. At the afternoon meeting 2 p.m. oclock held in fathers schoolhouse. I think the eyes of Bro[ther] M[oses's]. friends were opened and certainly Bro[ther] Thatcher must show signs of repentance or he will continue [to] be handled without gloves. Our inclination is to be more than merciful but if he thoroughly understands his condition he may be shocked to recuperation; certainly he must yield, we cannot for principle is at stake and the discipline of the church must be maintained. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Apostle Brigham Young Jr. Diary] [[Met with the High Council a-- B. Y. stated that when M. T. published his correspondence with President Snow in the "Tribune" he had betrayed his brethren. Meetings on the Thatcher case continued on the 9, 10 and 11 Aug., with B. Y. continuing to give a generally pessimistic prognosis regarding Moses.]] (1)
The High Council of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion met today at 10 A.M., to hear the case of Moses Thatcher, on trial for unchristianlike conduct and apostasy. The Council met in the office of the Presidency of the Stake, but subsequently adjourned to President [Brigham] Young's schoolhouse, inside the Eagle Gate, for better accommodations and more privacy. There were present the Presidency of the Stake, Angus M. Cannon, Jos[eph]. E. Taylor and Cha[rle]s. W. Penrose. The Council was organized as follows: One, William Eddington; 3, Orson A. Woolley (Alternate); 5, John T. Caine; 7, Edward Snelgrove (Alternate); 9, Elias A. Smith; 11, John Clark; 2, Geo[rge]. J. Taylor; 4, Anders W. Winberg; 6, Ja[me]s. P. Freeze; 8, Henry P. Richards; 10, John Nicholson; 12, David L. Davis. Prayer was offered by Councilor Orson A. Woolley. The accusers, namely, Brigham Young [Jr.], Francis M. Lyman and Heber J. Grant, and the accused, namely Moses Thatcher, were present and declared themselves ready for trial. Councillors Elias A. Smith and John Clark were the speakers for the accusers, Councillors John Nicholson and David L. Davis speakers for the accused. The charge was then read as follows:
Salt Lake City, Utah, July 30, 1897.
To the Presidency and High Council, Of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion.
Dear Brethren:–
We hereby prefer a charge against Brother Moses Thatcher of apostasy and un-
Christianlike conduct, exhibited in public speeches, private conversations, interviews through
newspapers and in other ways, showing a departure from the spirit of the Gospel and the
doctrine and discipline of the Church of Jesus Christ, such as to forfeit his right to fellowship
and standing in the Church.
Your brethren, Signed,
Brigham Young [Jr.],
Francis M. Lyman,
Heber J. Grant.
The High Council notice was read as follows:
Office of the Presidency of the Salt Lake Stake
of Zion, Salt Lake City, July 31, 1897.
Brother Moses Thatcher,
You are hereby notified to appear before the High Council of this Stake of Zion on
Friday, August 6th, 1897, at 10 A.M., at the Office of the Presidency of the Stake, Tithing
Buildings, to answer the following charges, viz: Apostasy and un-Christianlike conduct,
exhibited in public speeches, private conversations, in interviews through newspapers, and in
other ways, showing a departure from the spirit of the Gospel and the doctrines and discipline
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Please have all the evidence (witnesses and papers) you may require to proceed with
the hearing of your case.
WITNESS hand and seal of the High Council the day and year first above written.
Your Brother,
James D. Stirling,
Clerk of Council.
The response of Brother Thatcher was also read, viz:
Red Banks, Logan Canyon [Utah], Aug[ust]. 2, 1897.
James D. Stirling, Clerk of Council,
Salt Lake City.
Dear Brother:–
Your communication of July 31st, was handed me within the hour by Brother J. Z.
Stewart, of Logan, who was accompanied by Brother J. E. Carlisle of the same place.
Noting what you say, I am summoned to appear before the High Council of the Salt
Lake Stake of Zion, at the Tithing Office Buildings, at 10 A.M. on the 6th inst., to answer to
the charges of apostasy and unChristianlike conduct, exhibited in public speeches, private
conversations, and in interviews in newspapers, and in other ways showing a departure from
the spirit of the Gospel and the doctrine and discipline of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-
day Saints.
I shall make my arrangements accordingly, and unless something unforeseen occurs
making it impossible, I will meet the brethren of the High Council on the date named,
prepared to answer the charges as far as I an be prepared, without further detailed
specifications; which may appear in the hearing of the case. I send this to Logan by the hands
that conveyed your communication to me, addressing same to President Orson Smith, yours
having reached me in an open enclosure addressed to him, presumably by Pres[iden]t. Angus
M. Cannon.
Your brother in the Gospel,
Moses Thatcher.
Elder Brigham Young made the opening statement. After expressing his regrets that these proceedings had to be taken, he stated that from the death of president John Taylor, Brother Thatcher's course had been out of harmony with the spirit and teachings of the authorities of the Church. Brother Young related a number of things which took place previous to Bro[ther]. Thatcher's being excluded from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and from the Priesthood, including the incorrect charges he made against Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon, which he had never apologized for or sought to make right. Since the action of the Apostles in Brother Thatcher's case, he had given to the public press private letters, by which the speaker considered he had betrayed his brethren, and by his public and private utterances he had held them up to ridicule and disgrace.
Elder Francis M. Lyman corroborated the statement of Elder Young, spoke of the affection which had been entertained for Brother Thatcher by the Twelve and First Presidency, and their tenderness and patience in dealing with him in consideration of the serious condition of his health and his feeble state of body, but, the speaker said, Bro[ther]. Thatcher had taken a course to put bitterness into the hearts of many of the Latter-day Saints against the First Presidency and Twelve. He had been the standard bearer of apostates and those who felt ugly and wrathy towards the First Presidency and the Church. Bro[ther]. Thatcher had made it appear as though the leading authorities of the Church were going wrong, while he himself was in the right. Bro[ther]. Lyman read from the history of the Prophet Joseph Smith, in which the Prophet gave a key to the spirit of apostasy, and showed that this had been exemplified in Bro[ther]. Thatcher's course.
Elder Heber J. Grant endorsed the remarks of the previous speakers, and said they expected to prove from Bro[ther]. Thatcher's utterances, as published in the newspapers, that he had said things to bring the authorities of the Church into disrepute and which were calculated to destroy harmony and unity in the Church.
Brother Moses Thatcher said if he was able to see himself in the light and attitude which the brethren who had spoken viewed him, there would be only two things for him to do; either to put himself at once in the hands of this Council that they might determine what he should do, or to declare himself desirous of leaving the Church in which he had labored for so many years. Ever since he was fourteen and a half years of age, he had labored for the Gospel, and to be a member (to say nothing about official position) was worth far more to him than everything else on earth. He claimed that many things imputed to him was the work of busy-bodies. If he had done anything to betray his brethren, he was not conscious of it. If it was proven that he had done anything of that kind, God being his helper, he would make it right as soon as he could. He said "I have come here to get light, and I pray for the light to guide me aright". He spoke of the quarterly meetings of the Twelve that had been held and his understanding that they then held each other in fellowship. He thought he would be able to prove that he had not made some of the statements to which the brethren had alluded as coming from him.
Elder Brigham Young said he had some letters to introduce which had been published in the [Salt Lake] Tribune, and was told by the President of the Council that they would be admitted in evidence. An adjournment was taken till 2 P.M. At 2 o'clock the High Council reconvened, all members responding to the roll call.
Elder Brigham Young introduced the Salt Lake Tribune of Nov[ember]. 15th, 1896, containing an interview with Moses Thatcher, in which, speaking of the Declaration of Principles which he had refused to sign, he said, "I could not consent to the adoption of a rule that would affect the political liberty of so many people and give so great power to the Church authorities. I felt that it practically annulled the former declaration that there should be perfect freedom in political matters, and held that we were in honor bound to stand by the declaration". Also speaking of his nomination for the office of Senator of the United States, he said, "But if Utah, if Young Utah, feels that my election would be a vindication of that for which I have contended and would aid in preventing the forging of chains upon the people of this State, I should accept the office of Senator, should it be tendered me". Further he said: "Because of the stand I then took, I have been placed in the position of defending the cause imperilled by the address I refused to sign".
The Salt Lake Herald of Nov[ember]. 17th was put in evidence, which contained an interview with Moses Thatcher, Nov[ember]. 16th, in which he said, "I expressed my views in an interview which appeared in the Tribune recently, and in which I avowed myself a candidate".
As evidence that Bro[ther]. Thatcher had given private correspondence to the public newspapers, and used expressions in his letters conveying a false impression, prejudicial to the General Church Authorities, and which Bro[ther]. Young said was un-Christianlike conduct, the Salt Lake Tribune and Herald of Nov[ember]. 22nd were introduced. Also the letter of President Lorenzo Snow and he response of Moses Thatcher in the Salt Lake Tribune and Herald of December 13th, in which he attacked President Snow, and called his letter "a bitter and acrimonious communication". He also endeavored to place the Presiding Authorities in a false light concerning their attitude as to political affairs, making it appear that they were endeavoring to effect a union between Church and State and to dominate in political affairs. Brother Thatcher's remarks in the State Legislature as a defeated candidate in the Senatorial contest, were presented, also his remarks about Bro[ther]. Joseph Robinson in the same body, which had the same tendency and spirit. An address delivered by Moses Thatcher at a reception in Logan, Feb[ruary]. 12th was presented; also an article from the Logan Journal of Feb[ruary]. 11th, copied from the Salt Lake papers of Feb[ruary]. 8th, which was signed by Moses Thatcher; a speech at the Opera House Logan Feb[ruary]. 17th, and another speech at the reception given by Moses Thatcher at his residence in Salt Lake City, Feb[ruary]. 21st, and another on the 11th of March, all of which tended in the same direction, and showed hi antagonism to the policy of the leaders of the Church and were in the spirit of apostasy.
Elder Francis M. Lyman gave particulars of visits made by himself and others of the Twelve to Moses Thatcher, when he manifested a bitter and apostate spirit, and his conduct was unChristianlike. Brother Thatcher, he said, put a wrong construction on the Declaration of Principles. Brother Lyman stated that Elder B. H. Roberts had entertained some views corresponding with those of Brother Thatcher, but had seen his error and made amends and had signed the Declaration of Principles. Brother Thatcher's course and statements virtually charged the First Presidency, the Twelve, the Seven Presidents of Seventies, the Presiding Bishopric, and all who signed that Declaration of Principles with "stultifying" themselves. Elder Lyman spoke in reference to cartoons in the paper called the "Argus", in one of which Moses Thatcher was depicted as being crucified, and which held Pres[iden]t. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and others up to ridicule and contempt. Elder Lyman held Bro[ther]. Thatcher responsible for things contained in the Argus, because he had not repudiated them in any shape or form.
The Salt Lake Argus of Feb[ruary]. 6th, 1897, was introduced as evidence. This was objected to by Councilor John Nicholson, as there was no proof that Bro[ther]. Thatcher was connected with that paper.
Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman cross-examined, went over the ground again of his visit to Logan in company with Bro[ther]. John W. Taylor, to try and bring Bro[ther]. Thatcher into harmony with the First Presidency and Twelve.
In answer to Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Elder Lyman said, "yes, I considered that by your conduct at that time you exhibited the spirit of apostasy". "Also that by not repudiating those things in the Argus, which reflected on Pres[ident]. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and exalted Moses Thatcher, you exhibited the spirit of apostasy". In answer to Bro[ther]. Thatcher, Elder Lyman explained that the reason why Bro[ther]. Thatcher was fellowshipped at the Quarterly meetings of the Twelve, was they hoped all the time he would come into harmony with them, but even when they met with Bro[ther]. Thatcher before going into the Temple at its dedication, and he had promised to reform, he merely submitted, but his reformation had not been genuine.
Bro[ther]. Thatcher asked whether it was not customary before partaking of the sacrament in the meetings of the Twelve, to say, "I have the utmost confidence in you and for you"? Elder Lyman answered, "Yes, sir, it is a fact, and you did not keep that good."
In answer to Bro[ther]. Thatcher's question, "Was not your mission to Logan a political one"? Brother Lyman replied, "It was not political at all; your being out of harmony with the brethren was the cause of all the trouble, and you could have made that right at any time, if you had so desired".
Elder Heber J. Grant presented the Salt Lake Argus, of Nov[ember]. 21st, 28, Dec[ember]. 19th and Feb[ruary]. 6th stating he did not care who was responsible for their publication, but the fact that Bro[ther]. Thatcher did not repudiate them was sufficient. Those cartoons aimed to belittle the Church Authorities. The paper was an enemy of the Church. Brother Thatcher's financial connection with the Argus, whether it existed or not, cut no figure in the matter. Elder Grant further introduced in evidence a letter written by Elder B. H. Roberts to Moses Thatcher, from Cincinnati, Ohio, dated Nov[ember]. 6th, 1896. Council adjourned till Saturday afternoon at 3 o'clock. Benediction by Councilor A[nders]. W. Winberg.
Met with High Council at T[ithing]. O[ffice]. at 10 a.m. Bro[ther] [Francis M.] Lyman H[eber]. J. Grant Bro[ther]. M[oses]. Thatcher and several of his friends present. I made opening statement recounting labors of Twelve & presidency with Bro[ther]. M[oses]. from the death of pres[ident]. [John] Taylor. My statement was well received tho[ugh] I read at the last from Cour. Stating in words of profet Jos[eph]. [Smith] that the one who betrays his brethren is a traitor and Bro[ther]. M[oses]. did it when he published correspondence between him and Pres[ident]. L[orenzo]. Snow in the "[Salt Lake] Tribune" Gave in long sc[r]eed of testimony culled from news papers etc. Bro[thers] Lyman & Grant testified. At the afternoon meeting 2 p.m. oclock held in fathers schoolhouse. I think the eyes of Bro[ther] M[oses's]. friends were opened and certainly Bro[ther] Thatcher must show signs of repentance or he will continue [to] be handled without gloves. Our inclination is to be more than merciful but if he thoroughly understands his condition he may be shocked to recuperation; certainly he must yield, we cannot for principle is at stake and the discipline of the church must be maintained. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Apostle Brigham Young Jr., http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Salt Lake Stake High Council, Minutes; Brigham Young Jr., Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Jul 27, 1897
-- Jul 27, 1897
[President Wilford Woodruff Journal] July 27th I was somewhat restless the fore part of last night but slept soundly from 1.30 am to 7 a.m and felt better for it. I do not eat enough food to keep up my strength. Prest Geo. Q. Cannon called for a short time this morning. Pres. Lorenzo Snow called this afternoon & staid nearly an hour in conversation. Bro Nuttall also called for an hour, I feeling quite cheerful. (1)
-- Aug 4, 1897; Wednesday
... [Lorenzo Snow:] He said the Patriarch Joseph Smith, the father of the Prophet, had stated in his patriarchal blessing, that he should have power, when not able to visit the sick, to send his handkerchief to them, and that the afflicted by touching it should be made whole. To the unbelieving, such a statement as this would be very ridiculous. But on one occasion, a sister residing at Kaysville [Utah], whose husband was very sick, and who had read Pres[iden]t. Snow's patriarchal blessing, sent from Kaysville to Brigham City [Utah] in the dead of winter, requesting him to send a handkerchief to her husband, which he did, after having first blessed it, and the brother was healed immediately upon receipt of the handkerchief. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[President Wilford Woodruff Journal] July 27th I was somewhat restless the fore part of last night but slept soundly from 1.30 am to 7 a.m and felt better for it. I do not eat enough food to keep up my strength. Prest Geo. Q. Cannon called for a short time this morning. Pres. Lorenzo Snow called this afternoon & staid nearly an hour in conversation. Bro Nuttall also called for an hour, I feeling quite cheerful. (1)
-- Aug 4, 1897; Wednesday
... [Lorenzo Snow:] He said the Patriarch Joseph Smith, the father of the Prophet, had stated in his patriarchal blessing, that he should have power, when not able to visit the sick, to send his handkerchief to them, and that the afflicted by touching it should be made whole. To the unbelieving, such a statement as this would be very ridiculous. But on one occasion, a sister residing at Kaysville [Utah], whose husband was very sick, and who had read Pres[iden]t. Snow's patriarchal blessing, sent from Kaysville to Brigham City [Utah] in the dead of winter, requesting him to send a handkerchief to her husband, which he did, after having first blessed it, and the brother was healed immediately upon receipt of the handkerchief. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Apr 7, 1897; Wednesday
-- Apr 7, 1897; Wednesday
A meeting was held at 10 A.M. in the Assembly Hall, of the First Presidency, Apostles, Presidents of Stakes and counselors, High Councillors, Presidents of Seventies, Bishops and counselors, also Patriarchs.
President Lorenzo Snow addressed the Assembly on the necessity of Temple work, and of giving instructions to the Saints in relation to it.... (1)
-- Apr 17, 1897
[President Wilford Woodruff Journal] April 17th I was troubled some with phlem in my throat, but slept 5 1/2 hours from midnight to 9 am. After breakfast Bro Samuel Bateman called. I directed the planting of some garden seeds.
At 2 pm Pres Lorenzo Snow & Bro Wm Salmon called and staid for 1 1/2 hours & we conversed together. He gave me a list of /Salt Lake/ Temple work since the commencement May 22, 1893 to March 31 /97 Showing 142,679 Baptisms for the dead, 3,646 for health, 5,908 living Endowments 81,933 dead endowments; ordinations 53 living 32,739 dead; Sealings 2,590 living, 21,288 dead; children to Parents 6,147 living 17,936 dead; adoptions 67 living 694 dead; 2nd anointing 1,017 living 531 dead. Total living 19,428 Dead 297,794 = 317,222.
Before they left I asked Bro Snow to administer to me. Bro Salmon anointed Pres Snow mouth Elder Nuttall assisting. I had some short naps before midnight. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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A meeting was held at 10 A.M. in the Assembly Hall, of the First Presidency, Apostles, Presidents of Stakes and counselors, High Councillors, Presidents of Seventies, Bishops and counselors, also Patriarchs.
President Lorenzo Snow addressed the Assembly on the necessity of Temple work, and of giving instructions to the Saints in relation to it.... (1)
-- Apr 17, 1897
[President Wilford Woodruff Journal] April 17th I was troubled some with phlem in my throat, but slept 5 1/2 hours from midnight to 9 am. After breakfast Bro Samuel Bateman called. I directed the planting of some garden seeds.
At 2 pm Pres Lorenzo Snow & Bro Wm Salmon called and staid for 1 1/2 hours & we conversed together. He gave me a list of /Salt Lake/ Temple work since the commencement May 22, 1893 to March 31 /97 Showing 142,679 Baptisms for the dead, 3,646 for health, 5,908 living Endowments 81,933 dead endowments; ordinations 53 living 32,739 dead; Sealings 2,590 living, 21,288 dead; children to Parents 6,147 living 17,936 dead; adoptions 67 living 694 dead; 2nd anointing 1,017 living 531 dead. Total living 19,428 Dead 297,794 = 317,222.
Before they left I asked Bro Snow to administer to me. Bro Salmon anointed Pres Snow mouth Elder Nuttall assisting. I had some short naps before midnight. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, Jan 6, 1897
-- Jan 6, 1897
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] I am stopping at the Hampton House. Albert, my son, came to see me last evening and spent 1 hour with me. I went to Temple at 10 a. m. and found the water pipe that burst yesterday had not been repaired yet, so we could not hold our meeting, but we sat together in President Snow's office, where a gas fire was on, until 1 p. m talking and visiting together. I spent most of the afternoon in my room at the Hampton House. (1)
-- Mar 31, 1897
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Wednesday. Salt Lake. I attended our quarterly Quorum meeting again today. President Cannon and Dr. Leslie Snow came in and reported the condition of President Woodruff, he being very ill. At 3 p. m. President Snow and myself got a carriage from Bishop Preston and went to see President Woodruff at his home. Found him sitting up and feeling pretty well. We came back and I then went to see Albert, my son, at No. 20 K Street and took supper with him. Then came back and attended a lecture given by B. H. Roberts in the Assembly Hall. (1)
Endnotes:
1 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] I am stopping at the Hampton House. Albert, my son, came to see me last evening and spent 1 hour with me. I went to Temple at 10 a. m. and found the water pipe that burst yesterday had not been repaired yet, so we could not hold our meeting, but we sat together in President Snow's office, where a gas fire was on, until 1 p. m talking and visiting together. I spent most of the afternoon in my room at the Hampton House. (1)
-- Mar 31, 1897
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Wednesday. Salt Lake. I attended our quarterly Quorum meeting again today. President Cannon and Dr. Leslie Snow came in and reported the condition of President Woodruff, he being very ill. At 3 p. m. President Snow and myself got a carriage from Bishop Preston and went to see President Woodruff at his home. Found him sitting up and feeling pretty well. We came back and I then went to see Albert, my son, at No. 20 K Street and took supper with him. Then came back and attended a lecture given by B. H. Roberts in the Assembly Hall. (1)
Endnotes:
1 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Lorenzo Snow, 1896, December 6
-- 1896, December 6
Fast Day changed from first Thursday of month to first Sunday. (1)
-- Jan 1, 1897 (Friday)
This mission, which originally was known as the Swiss and Italian mission, was opened by Apostle Lorenzo Snow and fellow-laborers in 1850. After him the following Elders presided over the mission: Thos. B.H. Stenhouse from 1851; Daniel Tyler, Oct. 1, 1854; John L. Smith, Jan. 1856; Jabez Woodard, Oct., 1857; John L. Smith (second term) Jan. 24, 1861; Paul A. Schettler pro tem. Jan., 1864; Wm. W. Riter, 1864; W.P. Nebeker, 1865; Joseph S. Horne, May, 1867; Karl G. Maeser, June, 1868; Edward Schoenfeld, July, 1870; John Huber, June, 1872; John W. Stucki, June, 1874; Joseph S. Horne (second term) June, 1876; Henry Flamm, Oct. 1877; Serge L. Ballif, May, 1879; John Alder, May, 1881; Peter F. Goss, April 4, 1882; John Q. Cannon, Aug. 21, 1883; Fred W. Schoenfeld, May 16, 1884; John U. Stucki (second term), May 19, 1888; Theodore Brandley, Sept. 1, 1890; John Jacob Scharer, Sept. 15, 1891; J. H. Stoker, Feb. 7, 1894; and Geo. C. Naegle, April 28, 1894. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Ludlow, Daniel H. editor, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Publishing, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 4, Appendix 2: A Chronology of Church History, http://amzn.to/eG0DIp
2 - Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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Fast Day changed from first Thursday of month to first Sunday. (1)
-- Jan 1, 1897 (Friday)
This mission, which originally was known as the Swiss and Italian mission, was opened by Apostle Lorenzo Snow and fellow-laborers in 1850. After him the following Elders presided over the mission: Thos. B.H. Stenhouse from 1851; Daniel Tyler, Oct. 1, 1854; John L. Smith, Jan. 1856; Jabez Woodard, Oct., 1857; John L. Smith (second term) Jan. 24, 1861; Paul A. Schettler pro tem. Jan., 1864; Wm. W. Riter, 1864; W.P. Nebeker, 1865; Joseph S. Horne, May, 1867; Karl G. Maeser, June, 1868; Edward Schoenfeld, July, 1870; John Huber, June, 1872; John W. Stucki, June, 1874; Joseph S. Horne (second term) June, 1876; Henry Flamm, Oct. 1877; Serge L. Ballif, May, 1879; John Alder, May, 1881; Peter F. Goss, April 4, 1882; John Q. Cannon, Aug. 21, 1883; Fred W. Schoenfeld, May 16, 1884; John U. Stucki (second term), May 19, 1888; Theodore Brandley, Sept. 1, 1890; John Jacob Scharer, Sept. 15, 1891; J. H. Stoker, Feb. 7, 1894; and Geo. C. Naegle, April 28, 1894. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Ludlow, Daniel H. editor, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Publishing, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 4, Appendix 2: A Chronology of Church History, http://amzn.to/eG0DIp
2 - Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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