-- Sep 17, 1896; Thursday
The First Presidency and Apostles met at the Temple at 11 A.M. Present: Presidents W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, J[oseph]. F. Smith and L[orenzo]. Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, John W. Taylor and A[nthon]. H. Lund. President Woodruff spoke to the Council in relation to Brother Moses Thatcher. He said that in view of the fact that Brother Thatcher's health had greatly improved, and the October Conference was near at hand, he considered it was the duty of the Council to take some action in reference to his case. President Snow thought that Brother Thatcher ought to be invited to appear before his brethren, that his fellowship as an Apostle might be determined upon. Brother John Henry Smith explained that Brother Thatcher had himself placed under treatment for the morphine habit, and had consented
to restraint which virtually made him a prisoner until the time of the contract for treatment had expired. When his health was fully restored, Brother Smith thought he should be then required to appear before his quorum. Elder Brigham Young stated that when he and Brother F[ranklin]. D. Richards last met Brother Thatcher, he stated that when his health permitted he would appear before his brethren and sustain his position from the Doctrine and Covenants. President Woodruff thought that another General Conference should not be allowed to pass without some action on Brother Thatcher's case, and the people be made acquainted with it. President Joseph F. Smith, Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, F[rancis]. M. Lyman and A[nthon]. H. Lund each expressed themselves on the subject to the effect that it would be necessary for Brother Thatcher, not only to acknowledge the right of this Council to issue the Declaration of Principles, but also to place himself in harmony with his brethren, as he had been out of harmony with the Presiding authorities for years. It was resolved that Elders Brigham Young, F[rancis]. M. Lyman and John Henry Smith, be appointed to wait upon Brother Moses Thatcher and convey to him the mind of the Council on this matter. It was also decided that President Orson Smith of Cache [Utah] Stake be informed that it was the mind of the Council that if Brother Geo[rge]. W. Thatcher could not place himself in harmony with the Presiding authorities, he ought to resign his position as a member of the General Church Board of education and other official positions in the Church; also that Brother Brigham Young communicate this to Brother Geo[rge]. W. Thatcher. (1)
-- Oct 1, 1896; Thursday
Meeting of the Presidency and Apostles at the Temple at 11 A.M. Present: Presidents W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, J[oseph]. F. Smith, and L[orenzo]. Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, J[ohn]. W. Taylor, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill and A[nthon]. H. Lund. Elder F[ranklin]. D. Richards, by request of President Snow, reported that the Apostles had been considering the labors of the missionaries, about 1200 Elders being in the field. They were expected to purchase out of their own funds tracts for distribution among the people. It was the opinion of the Apostles that the Church should supply printed matter for distribution.
Elder A[nthon]. H. Lund said the custom among the missionaries in Europe was for them to buy their own tracts; this being quite a hardship, he had told those who were not financially able to buy them, that they might use church funds for the purpose. As a rule, however, they did not avail themselves of the privilege. There were about 600,000 tracts distributed in England every year alone.
In Norway and Sweden the Elders sold their tracts; in Denmark they were prohibited from doing this without a bookseller's license; therefore they had to give them away. In Germany the Elders were forbidden by law to give tracts, and therefore they sought conversations with the people. Brother Lund thought the Church should provide suitable tracts for distribution by the missionaries. Concerning the Elders laboring without purse or scrip, he said it was practicable in some places but not in others. In the British mission the Elders had to sustain themselves, and it was a common thing for them to help the people, instead of receiving sustenance from them. In this respect times had changed very much. Some experienced Elders who had performed previous missions to Scandinavia without purse or scrip, and endeavored to do so on their new missions, had found it impossible to accomplish it. In Denmark the law forbids the citizens to lodge strangers without a license. In Holland and Belgium the Elders got
along fairly well with but little expenditures of means. In Germany in places where there were but few Elders they could get along without purse or scrip, but as a general thing it was gound they could not do so. Of course they might if their faith was strong enough, but to accomplish it they would no doubt suffer a great deal. Some of the Elders in Europe who had means had been in the habit of leaving a shilling under the plate after eating a meal in the houses of poor Saints. The result was that those Elders who could afford to do this were welcomed, while others not able to do so, were not as welcome. Brother Lund therefore had counseled the brethren to cease this practice.
President Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon expressed his pleasure that the Apostles were considering the subject of missionary work. He regretted that there was not sufficient care taken to provide labor and shelter for the Saints who were brought here from abroad. The cost of sending out 1200 missionaries was very great, and he feared that in consequence of neglect and lack of employment, many of the people brought here by their labors became disaffected and some apostatized. He felt that this ought to be corrected; an organization ought to be effected to look after the welfare of the emigtants. This was one thing that should occupy the time and attention of the Presiding Bishopric.
President Woodruff expressed his feeling in regards to the burden of indebtedness which he was carrying as Trustee-in-trust for the Church, and which had borne very heavily upon him of late.
President Cannon referring to the financial condition of the Church, remarked that if the "dedicated stock" of the Bullion-Beck Company had been held according to agreement, the Church would have been in a financial position it never occupied before. Three-fifths of the Bullion-Beck stock was in his hands at the death of President [John] Taylor as a result of a solem covenant entered into between President Taylor, John Beck and himself, to hold it for sacred purposes, and if this had been kept, the Church today would have been financially strong, and able to do anything it wanted to do. President Cannon went on to explain that when he was in the penitentiary, he was informed by Brother F[ranklin]. S. Richards that it was the intention to sue him if he did not surrender the "dedicated stock." He replied that they might sue, and thereby let the Church and the world know who the covenant breakers were. He perceived however, that it was a matter he could not allow to go into court, and he told Brother Moses Thatcher that his self respect would not permit him to hold this stock after what had occurred. President Cannon said that if Brothers Moses Thatcher and John W. Taylor had united with him in preserving intact that solemn covenant which had been entered into, the Church would be in possession of ample means. But in consequence of their receiving back that dedicated stock, John Beck on his return from Germany, demanded his stock also, which President Cannon returned, the amount being $50,000.
Elder John W. Taylor stated that so far as he was concerned he had never authorized Brother F[ranklin]. S. Richards to say aything to President Cannon in regard to a suit at law, nor did he know anything about "dedicated stock." It had always been represented as pooled stock. He and his brother Geo[rge]. J.
Taylor had handled the stock for his father's family, and it would not have been sold by him to John Beck, if the Taylor family had been accorded representation on the Board of Directors. Up to the time of the sale to John Beck, the stock had always been represented to him as pooled stock, and he had never heard there was such a thing as revelation in regard to it.
President Cannon said Brother John W. Taylor must have known of the document signed by his father. It was not a revelation. President Taylor felt deeply impressed to enter into an agreement to buy the property of John Beck, if he would dedicate three-fifths of it to the Lord. This was done, and three-fifths of the stock was placed in President Taylor's hands and was held by him until his death. When Brother John Beck came home and demanded his stock, President Cannon reminded him of the covenant which he had been entered into. His reply was that President Taylor's family and Brother Moses Thatcher had got theirs and he wanted his, and Brother Cannon surrendered the Taylor's family, Thatcher's and Beck's stock, and had kept a strict account with his own.
Elder John W. Taylor said a document was shown to him signed by his father in June, a month before his father's death, and at the time his father was not in a condition to do business.
President Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon said though President Taylor was failing then he did not look upon him as incapable of doing business, and if Moses Thatcher and John W. Taylor had not broken up the dedicated stock, and had been disposed to carry out President Taylor's wishes in regard to it, the stock would now have been in possession of the Church. He had spoken with great freedom to Brother John W. Taylor, because he was the son of the dearest friend he ever had. Brother Cannon did not believe that Brother John W. Taylor had intentionally done wrong, he believed that he had been misguided, and that if he could have discerned the influences that were operating at the time he would have acted diferently in regard to this matter. If he had hurt Brother Taylor's feelings he would willingly ask his forgiveness.
Brother John W. Taylor said it would be a humiliation for himself to have to Brother Cannon ask his pardon, but he nevertheless felt to ask President Cannon's pardon, and said further Brother Thatcher had informed him that the stock was "pooled stock," but that after President Taylor's death it was called dedicated stock. Brother Taylor said his brother George at one time came to him with a letter from Brother Thatcher, the tenor of which went to show Moses Thatcher in the light of a hero fighting for the interest of the Taylor family, and he John W. was asked to attest the truth of it by appending his signature. This he refused to do, remarking at the time, that Moses Thatcher had never done anything in the matter excepting in his own interest. He told his brother George to tell Moses what he had said, and he never heard any more of the document.
President Cannon and Brother Taylor were both pleased that they had arrived at a mutual understanding on this matter, and united with the very best of feelings.
During the consideration of this matter, President Woodruff stated that Brother Moses Thatcher came to him while Pres[iden]t. G[eorge]. Q. Cannon was in prison, and told him that he was going
to sue President Cannon because he held stock and means which belonged to him. President Woodruff said he told Bro[ther]. Thatcher if he did this it would be the worst move he had ever made.
Articles of incorporation of the Grass Creek Coal Co[mpany]. were filed today with the County Clerk, with a capital stock of $200,000; Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon President and Director, Jos[eph]. F. Smith Vice-President and Director, Arthur Winter Sec[retary]. and Treas[urer]., Wilford Woodruff, W[illiam]. W. Cluff, James Jack, Nephi Clayton and Frank J. Cannon, Directors. The capital stock fully paid, up at par, is held as follows:
Wilford Woodruff, 510 shares $51,000
Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon, 510 " 51,000
Jos[eph]. F. Smith, 510 " 51,000
Ja[me]s. Jack, Trustee 410 " 41,000
Arthur Winter, 10 " 1,000
John M. Cannon, 10 " 1,000
W[illiam]. W. Cluff, 10 " 1,000
James Jack, 10 " 1,000
N[ephi]. W. Clayton, 10 " 1,000
F[rank]. J. Cannon, 10 " 1,000. (1)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Jul 20, 1896; Monday
-- Jul 20, 1896; Monday
The First Presidency were all at their office this morning, President George Q. Cannon exhibiting remarkable fortitude considering his recent sad bereavement. President Lorenzo Snow conferred with them in reference to the funeral of the deceased Apostle. It was decided that the funeral should be held in the Tabernacle on Sunday, July 26, at 2 P.M. The
deceased having expressed a wish that his remains should be kept a week before interment. The ceremonies to be conducted by the Quorum of the Twelve. A committee of the Apostles was appointed to attend to all the details. ...
The subject of Moses Thatcher's case was considered, and in view of the request of some of his family that further time be granted, his case was postponed without date. (1)
-- 13 September 1896
[Wife of Lorenzo Snow] Death of wife Eleanor Houtz (2)
-- Sep 15, 1896
Brother Abraham Fernandez, a member of the Honolulu Branch of the Church, an Hawaiian, called on the First Presidency at their office this morning, bearing a recommend from Elder Samuel E. Woolley, President of the Sandwich Islands Mission, as worthy to receive his endowments. Brother Fernandez was on a visit to his fellow countrymen at Josepa [Utah]. President [Wilford] Woodruff signed the recommend, that he might receive the blessings of the House of the Lord. [September 17, 1896; Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; Marriner Wood Merrill, Diary]
The First Presidency and Apostles met at the Temple at 11 A.M. Present: Presidents W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, J[oseph]. F. Smith and L[orenzo]. Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, John W. Taylor and A[nthon]. H. Lund. President Woodruff spoke to the Council in relation to Brother Moses Thatcher. He said that in view of the fact that Brother Thatcher's health had greatly improved, and the October Conference was near at hand, he considered it was the duty of the Council to take some action in reference to his case. President Snow thought that Brother Thatcher ought to be invited to appear before his brethren, that his fellowship as an Apostle might be determined upon. Brother John Henry Smith explained that Brother Thatcher had himself placed under treatment for the morphine habit, and had consented to restraint which virtually made him a prisoner until the time of the contract for treatment had expired. When his health was fully restored, Brother Smith thought he should be then required to appear before his quorum. Elder Brigham Young stated that when he and Brother F[ranklin]. D. Richards last met Brother Thatcher, he stated that when his health permitted he would appear before his brethren and sustain his position from the Doctrine and Covenants. President Woodruff thought that another General Conference should not be allowed to pass without some action on Brother Thatcher's case, and the people be made acquainted with it. President Joseph F. Smith, Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, F[rancis]. M. Lyman and A[nthon]. H. Lund each expressed themselves on the subject to the effect that it would be necessary for Brother Thatcher, not only to acknowledge the right of this Council to issue the Declaration of Principles, but also to place himself in harmony with his brethren, as he had been out of harmony with the Presiding authorities for years. It was resolved that Elders Brigham Young, F[rancis]. M. Lyman and John Henry Smith, be appointed to wait upon Brother Moses Thatcher and convey to him the mind of the Council on this matter. It was also decided that President Orson Smith of Cache [Utah] Stake be informed that it was the mind of the Council that if Brother Geo[rge]. W. Thatcher could not place himself in harmony with the Presiding authorities, he ought to resign his position as a member of the General Church Board of education and other official positions in the Church; also that Brother Brigham Young communicate this to Brother Geo[rge]. W. Thatcher. At 11 a.m. The 3 presidency and 10 of the Apostles all living (except M[oses]. Thatcher) considered Bro[ther]. Thatcher's position and B[righam] Y[oung] [Jr.], F[rancis] M L[yman] & J[ohn] H[enry] S[mith] were appointed to visit Br[other] M[oses] T[hatcher] & convey instruction of council to him.
Gov[ernor]. Heber M. Wells & Senator F[rank] J Cannon came in when politics of the state was considered—After mature deliberation in which the Governor & senator participated as well as each of the Presidency and several of the Apostles. It was decided not to take public part in either of the party's politics as for silver or for the Gold men's party notions. It was imperative that I be home to this council meeting in the Temple. Met at 11 a.m. Pres[iden]ts felt well. Had a long & interesting talk on the situation. Committee of B[righam]. Y[oung]. [Jr.] F[rancis]. M. L[yman]. & J[oh]n. H[enry]. S[mith] were appointed to wait up Moses Thatcher with ultimatum of the Council. Our Quorum can stand his conduct no longer; he has health to go anywhere he likes and maintains his opposition to the church wherever he goes but never attempts to meet with his quorum or even enquired if they want him. Poor Moses I fear he has passed beyond the influence of his leaders.
I left Logan [Utah] on Freight Train at 8 PM in answer to a Telegram from Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q Cannon to be in Salt lake to day to attend an important Meeting ... arrived in Salt Lake at 9 AM attended Meeting at the Temple where Moses Thatchers case was again discussed and a Committee of Three Viz John H[enry] Smith B[righam] Young [Jr.] and F[rancis]. M. Lyman to make a final visit to Him and take the ultimatum of His Quorum and the Presidency to Him, after which Sen[a]tor F[rank] J Cannon and Gov[ernor] Heber M Wells was called in and Political [politics] was discused at length the silver sentiment Prevailed. (3)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_Snow#Wives_and_children
3 - Journal History
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
The First Presidency were all at their office this morning, President George Q. Cannon exhibiting remarkable fortitude considering his recent sad bereavement. President Lorenzo Snow conferred with them in reference to the funeral of the deceased Apostle. It was decided that the funeral should be held in the Tabernacle on Sunday, July 26, at 2 P.M. The
deceased having expressed a wish that his remains should be kept a week before interment. The ceremonies to be conducted by the Quorum of the Twelve. A committee of the Apostles was appointed to attend to all the details. ...
The subject of Moses Thatcher's case was considered, and in view of the request of some of his family that further time be granted, his case was postponed without date. (1)
-- 13 September 1896
[Wife of Lorenzo Snow] Death of wife Eleanor Houtz (2)
-- Sep 15, 1896
Brother Abraham Fernandez, a member of the Honolulu Branch of the Church, an Hawaiian, called on the First Presidency at their office this morning, bearing a recommend from Elder Samuel E. Woolley, President of the Sandwich Islands Mission, as worthy to receive his endowments. Brother Fernandez was on a visit to his fellow countrymen at Josepa [Utah]. President [Wilford] Woodruff signed the recommend, that he might receive the blessings of the House of the Lord. [September 17, 1896; Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; Marriner Wood Merrill, Diary]
The First Presidency and Apostles met at the Temple at 11 A.M. Present: Presidents W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, J[oseph]. F. Smith and L[orenzo]. Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, John W. Taylor and A[nthon]. H. Lund. President Woodruff spoke to the Council in relation to Brother Moses Thatcher. He said that in view of the fact that Brother Thatcher's health had greatly improved, and the October Conference was near at hand, he considered it was the duty of the Council to take some action in reference to his case. President Snow thought that Brother Thatcher ought to be invited to appear before his brethren, that his fellowship as an Apostle might be determined upon. Brother John Henry Smith explained that Brother Thatcher had himself placed under treatment for the morphine habit, and had consented to restraint which virtually made him a prisoner until the time of the contract for treatment had expired. When his health was fully restored, Brother Smith thought he should be then required to appear before his quorum. Elder Brigham Young stated that when he and Brother F[ranklin]. D. Richards last met Brother Thatcher, he stated that when his health permitted he would appear before his brethren and sustain his position from the Doctrine and Covenants. President Woodruff thought that another General Conference should not be allowed to pass without some action on Brother Thatcher's case, and the people be made acquainted with it. President Joseph F. Smith, Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, F[rancis]. M. Lyman and A[nthon]. H. Lund each expressed themselves on the subject to the effect that it would be necessary for Brother Thatcher, not only to acknowledge the right of this Council to issue the Declaration of Principles, but also to place himself in harmony with his brethren, as he had been out of harmony with the Presiding authorities for years. It was resolved that Elders Brigham Young, F[rancis]. M. Lyman and John Henry Smith, be appointed to wait upon Brother Moses Thatcher and convey to him the mind of the Council on this matter. It was also decided that President Orson Smith of Cache [Utah] Stake be informed that it was the mind of the Council that if Brother Geo[rge]. W. Thatcher could not place himself in harmony with the Presiding authorities, he ought to resign his position as a member of the General Church Board of education and other official positions in the Church; also that Brother Brigham Young communicate this to Brother Geo[rge]. W. Thatcher. At 11 a.m. The 3 presidency and 10 of the Apostles all living (except M[oses]. Thatcher) considered Bro[ther]. Thatcher's position and B[righam] Y[oung] [Jr.], F[rancis] M L[yman] & J[ohn] H[enry] S[mith] were appointed to visit Br[other] M[oses] T[hatcher] & convey instruction of council to him.
Gov[ernor]. Heber M. Wells & Senator F[rank] J Cannon came in when politics of the state was considered—After mature deliberation in which the Governor & senator participated as well as each of the Presidency and several of the Apostles. It was decided not to take public part in either of the party's politics as for silver or for the Gold men's party notions. It was imperative that I be home to this council meeting in the Temple. Met at 11 a.m. Pres[iden]ts felt well. Had a long & interesting talk on the situation. Committee of B[righam]. Y[oung]. [Jr.] F[rancis]. M. L[yman]. & J[oh]n. H[enry]. S[mith] were appointed to wait up Moses Thatcher with ultimatum of the Council. Our Quorum can stand his conduct no longer; he has health to go anywhere he likes and maintains his opposition to the church wherever he goes but never attempts to meet with his quorum or even enquired if they want him. Poor Moses I fear he has passed beyond the influence of his leaders.
I left Logan [Utah] on Freight Train at 8 PM in answer to a Telegram from Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q Cannon to be in Salt lake to day to attend an important Meeting ... arrived in Salt Lake at 9 AM attended Meeting at the Temple where Moses Thatchers case was again discussed and a Committee of Three Viz John H[enry] Smith B[righam] Young [Jr.] and F[rancis]. M. Lyman to make a final visit to Him and take the ultimatum of His Quorum and the Presidency to Him, after which Sen[a]tor F[rank] J Cannon and Gov[ernor] Heber M Wells was called in and Political [politics] was discused at length the silver sentiment Prevailed. (3)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_Snow#Wives_and_children
3 - Journal History
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Jul 8, 1896; Wednesday
-- Jul 8, 1896; Wednesday
At 10 am attended a meeting of the Apostles in the Temple. Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow offered the opening prayer, and he very earnestly supplicated the Lord in behalf of Apostle Moses Thatcher. John Henry Smith said that he did not look on him the same as a man who had become addicted to the use of liquor to the extent that he was not responsible for his actions. Bro[ther] Moses had been addicted to the use of morphine. He related a dream he had which he had had in relation to Bro[ther] Thatcher, which had given him the impression that Bro[ther] Moses would not have any great influence in leading the Saints from the path of duty should he fail to harmonize with his brethren, and we be under the necessity of taking action against him. Expressed the very best of feelings and perfect fellowship for the Presidency and the members of the quorum of the Apostles. Felt the more active we were in mingling among the people the better it would be for us. ... (1)
-- Jul 9, 1896
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. Attended meeting again today at 11 a. m. The First Presidency met with us and partook of the sacrament. At the suggestion of President Snow we remained a few minutes and appointed a committee, F. D. Richards and B. Young, to visit Moses Thatcher and we then adjourned to 7 p. m. Met at 7 p. m. and deliberated some time and decided to adjourn to Wednesday, July 22nd, at 10 a. m. in the Annex of the Temple. A charge was preferred against Apostle Thatcher for apostasy, and he was required to meet his Quorum on this charge on the above date. (2)
-- Jul 9, 1896; Thursday
... At our meeting tonight, Bro[ther]s Richards and Young reported that they had visited Bro[ther] Moses, and found that there was no change whatever in his feelings, but on the contrary, he was more confirmed than ever in his position of opposition, to the address issued at the last conference.
Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow, after hearing the report of Bro[ther]s Richards and Young, said that he would like each of the brethren to express themselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses' case. Referred to the fact that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher had been ordained to the Apostleship, and that this was the nearest place to God that man can reach in this life. And that men who receive this high office were under obligations to so live as to be entitled to the inspiration of the Good Spirit at all times. Bro[ther] Moses was not in perfect harmony with the Presidency of the Church, the Apostles, the first seven presidents of the seventies, and the presiding bishopric. He was satisfied that action in this case would be the best possible thing for Bro[ther] Moses himself. He asked Bro[ther] John W. Taylor to be the first speaker.
....Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow said that he and all the rest of the quorum regretted that we had to bring this case to a crisis, and we would all gladly vote for more time, did we not think that it would be injurious to the work of the Lord to do so.... .
Lorenzo Snow said he liked the suggestion of Bro[ther] Lyman with reference to making a formal charge of apostacy. He did not think that delay would do Bro[ther] Moses one particle of good at the same time he thought that it was the wisest thing to do so as not to affect those who were weak in the faith. Felt that Moses actions had been such that unless he repented that we should withdraw fellowship and take his Apostleship from him. He felt that Moses' actions had been such that a charge of apostacy could be sustained. President Woodruff is a very merciful man and under his administration, we might say that today is a day of mercy. In the days of the prophet Joseph Smith, Bro[ther] Moses would have been dealt with promptly, and unless he put himself in perfect harmony with his quorum his fellowship would have been taken from him. (1)
Endnotes:
1 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
2 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
At 10 am attended a meeting of the Apostles in the Temple. Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow offered the opening prayer, and he very earnestly supplicated the Lord in behalf of Apostle Moses Thatcher. John Henry Smith said that he did not look on him the same as a man who had become addicted to the use of liquor to the extent that he was not responsible for his actions. Bro[ther] Moses had been addicted to the use of morphine. He related a dream he had which he had had in relation to Bro[ther] Thatcher, which had given him the impression that Bro[ther] Moses would not have any great influence in leading the Saints from the path of duty should he fail to harmonize with his brethren, and we be under the necessity of taking action against him. Expressed the very best of feelings and perfect fellowship for the Presidency and the members of the quorum of the Apostles. Felt the more active we were in mingling among the people the better it would be for us. ... (1)
-- Jul 9, 1896
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. Attended meeting again today at 11 a. m. The First Presidency met with us and partook of the sacrament. At the suggestion of President Snow we remained a few minutes and appointed a committee, F. D. Richards and B. Young, to visit Moses Thatcher and we then adjourned to 7 p. m. Met at 7 p. m. and deliberated some time and decided to adjourn to Wednesday, July 22nd, at 10 a. m. in the Annex of the Temple. A charge was preferred against Apostle Thatcher for apostasy, and he was required to meet his Quorum on this charge on the above date. (2)
-- Jul 9, 1896; Thursday
... At our meeting tonight, Bro[ther]s Richards and Young reported that they had visited Bro[ther] Moses, and found that there was no change whatever in his feelings, but on the contrary, he was more confirmed than ever in his position of opposition, to the address issued at the last conference.
Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow, after hearing the report of Bro[ther]s Richards and Young, said that he would like each of the brethren to express themselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses' case. Referred to the fact that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher had been ordained to the Apostleship, and that this was the nearest place to God that man can reach in this life. And that men who receive this high office were under obligations to so live as to be entitled to the inspiration of the Good Spirit at all times. Bro[ther] Moses was not in perfect harmony with the Presidency of the Church, the Apostles, the first seven presidents of the seventies, and the presiding bishopric. He was satisfied that action in this case would be the best possible thing for Bro[ther] Moses himself. He asked Bro[ther] John W. Taylor to be the first speaker.
....Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow said that he and all the rest of the quorum regretted that we had to bring this case to a crisis, and we would all gladly vote for more time, did we not think that it would be injurious to the work of the Lord to do so.... .
Lorenzo Snow said he liked the suggestion of Bro[ther] Lyman with reference to making a formal charge of apostacy. He did not think that delay would do Bro[ther] Moses one particle of good at the same time he thought that it was the wisest thing to do so as not to affect those who were weak in the faith. Felt that Moses actions had been such that unless he repented that we should withdraw fellowship and take his Apostleship from him. He felt that Moses' actions had been such that a charge of apostacy could be sustained. President Woodruff is a very merciful man and under his administration, we might say that today is a day of mercy. In the days of the prophet Joseph Smith, Bro[ther] Moses would have been dealt with promptly, and unless he put himself in perfect harmony with his quorum his fellowship would have been taken from him. (1)
Endnotes:
1 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
2 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Jun 4, 1896; Thursday
-- Jun 4, 1896; Thursday
The First Presidency and Apostles met at 11 A.M. in the Temple. Present: Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [Geoerge Q.] Cannon, [Joseph F.] Smith and [Lorenzo] Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon.
Elder Moses Thatcher was expected to attend the meeting of the Apostles in the Annex at 3 P.M., but word was brought that his health had again become so impaired that he would be unable to attend.
The financial condition of Elder B. H. Roberts was considered, and also the propriety of his taking a mission to preach the Gospel. It was decided that the First Presidency should interview Brother Roberts with a view to his taking a mission to the Eastern States, accompanied by some male members of the Tabernacle Choir as singers. On motion of President Snow it was agreed that Elder Roberts should be permitted to draw in equitable tithes for the support of his family, not to exceed $2,000.
The subject of the improvement of the "Deseret News" was presented, and the necessity of the Church circulating the printed word, also the necessity of a strong Church paper as a guide to the small country papers which were numerous and needed a
criterion.
Attention was directed to an advertisement in "Bikuben" for the sale of Temple clothing, and President Snow was requested to see that the matter was investigated, and that the sale of female Temple clothing should be in the hands of the Relief Societies. ... (1)
-- Jun 22, 1896; Monday
Elder B. H. Roberts was today given a letter of appointment to labor as a missionary in the States lying East of Utah, extending to the Coast. Elder Geo[rge]. D. Pyper and Melvin J. Ballard were appointed to accompany and assist Elder Roberts.
President Lorenzo Snow called on the First Presidency and reported that he and a number of the the Twelve had conversed with Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman in relation to the communication from the High Council of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion, and showed him that it was not the province of an Apostle to set aside usages established in an organized Stake, which was under the direction of the Stake Presidency. Elder Snow stated further that the matter would be considererd at the next quarterly meeting of the Apostles. Elder Lyman, he said, expressed his perfect willingness to do anything in the matter that might be required of him.
(1)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
The First Presidency and Apostles met at 11 A.M. in the Temple. Present: Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [Geoerge Q.] Cannon, [Joseph F.] Smith and [Lorenzo] Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon.
Elder Moses Thatcher was expected to attend the meeting of the Apostles in the Annex at 3 P.M., but word was brought that his health had again become so impaired that he would be unable to attend.
The financial condition of Elder B. H. Roberts was considered, and also the propriety of his taking a mission to preach the Gospel. It was decided that the First Presidency should interview Brother Roberts with a view to his taking a mission to the Eastern States, accompanied by some male members of the Tabernacle Choir as singers. On motion of President Snow it was agreed that Elder Roberts should be permitted to draw in equitable tithes for the support of his family, not to exceed $2,000.
The subject of the improvement of the "Deseret News" was presented, and the necessity of the Church circulating the printed word, also the necessity of a strong Church paper as a guide to the small country papers which were numerous and needed a
criterion.
Attention was directed to an advertisement in "Bikuben" for the sale of Temple clothing, and President Snow was requested to see that the matter was investigated, and that the sale of female Temple clothing should be in the hands of the Relief Societies. ... (1)
-- Jun 22, 1896; Monday
Elder B. H. Roberts was today given a letter of appointment to labor as a missionary in the States lying East of Utah, extending to the Coast. Elder Geo[rge]. D. Pyper and Melvin J. Ballard were appointed to accompany and assist Elder Roberts.
President Lorenzo Snow called on the First Presidency and reported that he and a number of the the Twelve had conversed with Elder F[rancis]. M. Lyman in relation to the communication from the High Council of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion, and showed him that it was not the province of an Apostle to set aside usages established in an organized Stake, which was under the direction of the Stake Presidency. Elder Snow stated further that the matter would be considererd at the next quarterly meeting of the Apostles. Elder Lyman, he said, expressed his perfect willingness to do anything in the matter that might be required of him.
(1)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Jun 1, 1896
-- Jun 1, 1896
The First Presidency were at their office, and received a visit from Elder Lewis W. Shurtliff of Weber [Utah] Stake. He represented that a new Ward would soon be organized of settlers on land brought under cultivation by a canal made by the Pioneer Power Company, and he recommended William L. Stewart of Plain City as a suitable man for Bishop of the Ward. It was decided to call brother Stewart to this position. On his recommendation also, the Presidency resolved that William S. Lewis of Ogden [Utah], and Peter Later, who had been cut off the Church, should be permitted to be baptized.
$200 was appropriated towards building a new meeting house for the St. John's Ward, Malad [Idaho/Utah] Stake, the amount of tithing there for the present year.
The use of the Tabernacle was granted for the evening of July 2, to give a concert under the control of the Presiding Bishopric, for the benefit of the Mid-summer carnival, the Tabernacle Choir, under brother Evan Stephens, to receive one fourth of the proceeds in payment for their services. [June 4, 1896; Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; Marriner Wood Merrill, Diary]
The First Presidency and Apostles met at 11 A.M. in the Temple. Present: Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [Geoerge Q.] Cannon, [Joseph F.] Smith and [Lorenzo] Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon.
Elder Moses Thatcher was expected to attend the meeting of the Apostles in the Annex at 3 P.M., but word was brought that his health had again become so impaired that he would be unable to attend.
The financial condition of Elder B. H. Roberts was considered, and also the propriety of his taking a mission to preach the Gospel. It was decided that the First Presidency should interview Brother Roberts with a view to his taking a mission to the Eastern States, accompanied by some male members of the Tabernacle Choir as singers. On motion of President Snow it was agreed that Elder Roberts should be permitted to draw in equitable tithes for the support of his family, not to exceed $2,000.
The subject of the improvement of the "Deseret News" was presented, and the necessity of the Church circulating the printed word, also the necessity of a strong Church paper as a guide to the small country papers which were numerous and needed a criterion. Attention was directed to an advertisement in "Bikuben" for the sale of Temple clothing, and President Snow was requested to see that the matter was investigated, and that the sale of female Temple clothing should be in the hands of the Relief Societies. ...
Apostle M[oses]. Thatcher had expressed his intention to meet with the 12 today but J[ohn] H[enry] Smith stated he had met with a very terrible relapse yesterday and is confined to his bed today—that his Dr. Meacham says he has no hope of his recovery unless he will go to the Hospital for treatment. Voted that $2,000 a year be allowed Pres[iden]t B H Roberts for his family that he may go on a mission to the Eastern States, possibly the sweet singer Easton will go with him. Pres[idency]. & 12 met in Temple. Word was bro[ugh]t that Bro[ther] M[oses]. Thatcher had suffered a relaps[e] worse than ever before. He was to meet us at 3 p.m. in the annex when we would have had a plain invitation to his rebellion against the church.
I went to President Office at 9 A.M done some Business, to B[isho]p Office and to Temple at 10.40 AM. Met in Our room Presidency & 10 of the apostles were present. Some Matters of Church Business were discussed and a vote taken for Elder B. H. Roberts to report to the Presidents Office to see if He was Willing to take a Mission to the Eastern States &c., at 3 P.M was the Hour set to Meet Apostle Moses Thatcher by His Quorum at the Temple Annex to inquire into His feelings about Church disciplin &c but He was unable to attend and the Meeting adj[ourned] sine die. (1)
-- Thursday, Jun 4, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Jos. F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, F. M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill, Abraham H. Cannon & G. F. Gibbs met in Council at the temple. Bro. M. Thatcher was to have been with us but failed on account of sickness. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Journal History
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
The First Presidency were at their office, and received a visit from Elder Lewis W. Shurtliff of Weber [Utah] Stake. He represented that a new Ward would soon be organized of settlers on land brought under cultivation by a canal made by the Pioneer Power Company, and he recommended William L. Stewart of Plain City as a suitable man for Bishop of the Ward. It was decided to call brother Stewart to this position. On his recommendation also, the Presidency resolved that William S. Lewis of Ogden [Utah], and Peter Later, who had been cut off the Church, should be permitted to be baptized.
$200 was appropriated towards building a new meeting house for the St. John's Ward, Malad [Idaho/Utah] Stake, the amount of tithing there for the present year.
The use of the Tabernacle was granted for the evening of July 2, to give a concert under the control of the Presiding Bishopric, for the benefit of the Mid-summer carnival, the Tabernacle Choir, under brother Evan Stephens, to receive one fourth of the proceeds in payment for their services. [June 4, 1896; Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; Marriner Wood Merrill, Diary]
The First Presidency and Apostles met at 11 A.M. in the Temple. Present: Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [Geoerge Q.] Cannon, [Joseph F.] Smith and [Lorenzo] Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, G[eorge]. Teasdale, H[eber]. J. Grant, M[arriner]. W[ood]. Merrill, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon.
Elder Moses Thatcher was expected to attend the meeting of the Apostles in the Annex at 3 P.M., but word was brought that his health had again become so impaired that he would be unable to attend.
The financial condition of Elder B. H. Roberts was considered, and also the propriety of his taking a mission to preach the Gospel. It was decided that the First Presidency should interview Brother Roberts with a view to his taking a mission to the Eastern States, accompanied by some male members of the Tabernacle Choir as singers. On motion of President Snow it was agreed that Elder Roberts should be permitted to draw in equitable tithes for the support of his family, not to exceed $2,000.
The subject of the improvement of the "Deseret News" was presented, and the necessity of the Church circulating the printed word, also the necessity of a strong Church paper as a guide to the small country papers which were numerous and needed a criterion. Attention was directed to an advertisement in "Bikuben" for the sale of Temple clothing, and President Snow was requested to see that the matter was investigated, and that the sale of female Temple clothing should be in the hands of the Relief Societies. ...
Apostle M[oses]. Thatcher had expressed his intention to meet with the 12 today but J[ohn] H[enry] Smith stated he had met with a very terrible relapse yesterday and is confined to his bed today—that his Dr. Meacham says he has no hope of his recovery unless he will go to the Hospital for treatment. Voted that $2,000 a year be allowed Pres[iden]t B H Roberts for his family that he may go on a mission to the Eastern States, possibly the sweet singer Easton will go with him. Pres[idency]. & 12 met in Temple. Word was bro[ugh]t that Bro[ther] M[oses]. Thatcher had suffered a relaps[e] worse than ever before. He was to meet us at 3 p.m. in the annex when we would have had a plain invitation to his rebellion against the church.
I went to President Office at 9 A.M done some Business, to B[isho]p Office and to Temple at 10.40 AM. Met in Our room Presidency & 10 of the apostles were present. Some Matters of Church Business were discussed and a vote taken for Elder B. H. Roberts to report to the Presidents Office to see if He was Willing to take a Mission to the Eastern States &c., at 3 P.M was the Hour set to Meet Apostle Moses Thatcher by His Quorum at the Temple Annex to inquire into His feelings about Church disciplin &c but He was unable to attend and the Meeting adj[ourned] sine die. (1)
-- Thursday, Jun 4, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Jos. F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, F. M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill, Abraham H. Cannon & G. F. Gibbs met in Council at the temple. Bro. M. Thatcher was to have been with us but failed on account of sickness. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Journal History
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
More History?
Want more LDS history? Check out Mormon-Church-History, a comprehensive chronology of church history. It is a tour through church history, covering a little bit each day through the the history of the church. About a dozen chronological entries are posted daily, gradually covering the entire history of the Mormon church over the next several years. More info can be found here: http://mormon-church-history.blogspot.com/2008/12/welcome-to-mormon-church-history.html
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, May 28, 1896; Thursday
-- May 28, 1896; Thursday
...The Presidency and Apostles met at the temple at 11 A.M. There were present: Presidents Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon, [Joseph F.] Smith and [Lorenzo] Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, and A[braham]. H. Cannon. President Joseph F. Smith by request, reported some proceedings at the Stake Conference of the M.I.A. at Logan [Utah] on Saturday and Sunday, May 23, and 24th. He said the question arose in regard to presenting the name of brother Moses Thatcher as one of the
General Superintendency of the Y.M.[M.]I.A. Elder Orson Smith had decided that if none of the First Presidency or Apostles were present, he would take the responsibility of withholding Brother Thatcher's name in presenting the authorities to the Conference, and avoid unpleasantness by withholding the names of all the General Superintendency on that occasion. A meeting was called of the M.I.A. Officers of the Stake, at which the question was fully discussed. Some of the brethren felt they had not the right to omit brother Thatcher's name, but finally the brethren became united in the propriety of withholding the name.
President Woodruff endorsed that view of the case, and said it was his duty to urge the Twelve to take up brother Moses Thatcher's case, as soon as the state of his health permitted.
President Lorenzo Snow informed President Woodruff that he and his brethren of the Twelve would meet and take such a course as the spirit of the Lord would suggest and circumstances rendered possible. ... (1)
... Lorenzo Snow expressed himself as being in perfect accord with the sentiments uttered by Pres[iden]t. Woodruff. Felt that Bro[ther] Thatcher was not worthy to stand as an Apostle. Referred to the troubles in the days of Kirtland [Ohio], and of the quarrel in the Kirtland Temple, where a Brother Parrish rose up and cursed Bro[ther] [Joseph] Smith, the father of the Prophet. Referred to the fact that so many of the leading officials fell at this time that it seemed as though the Church of God would be destroyed, but the Lord had sustained the brethren in disfellowshipping those who were not faithful, and he testified that the Lord would sustain us at all times in doing our duty. In case we take action against Bro[ther] Moses a great howl will go up over the matter, and we will be bitterly accused for lack of charity, etc. But he felt that this should not deter us from doing our duty in the premises.
Wilford Woodruff stated that the time had come for us to take action.
Bro[ther]s Snow and Lyman felt that it would be wise for the First Presidency to meet with the quorum of the Apostles when we had Bro[ther] Thatcher before us. Pres[iden]t George Q. Cannon did not think that the First Presidency should not meet with the quorum of Apostles and Bro[ther] Thatcher. He thought that the differences between Bro[ther] Thatcher and the quorum and the position which he was in was a matter which should be considered by the Apostles. He said he would state some things which he had never before mentioned, and one was that for many years he had had no confidence whatever in Bro[ther] Thatcher, as he had been guilty of circulating falsehoods against him. He referred to the fact that while he was in the penitentiary that Bro[ther] Thatcher had accused him of having money belonging to Bro[ther] Thatcher, and stated that he was going to start suit for the recovery of
this money. After Pres[iden]t Cannon had been liberated from the penitentiary he proved in the presence of the Apostles that not only was he not in debt to Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, but on the contrary, there was a small balance somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. due to him from Bro[ther] Thatcher, and that this amount was subsequently paid. Bro[ther] Moses, however, had never so much as apologized to him or to the quorum of Twelve Apostles for having made such an accusation and threatening to take one of his brethren before the courts of the land. Bro[ther] Cannon said he would be only too willing to forgive Bro[ther] Thatcher, provided he would pace himself in harmony with his quorum.
... It was finally decided that a meeting should be held with Bro[ther] Thatcher by the Apostles, and that the First Presidency should not attend said meeting. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
...The Presidency and Apostles met at the temple at 11 A.M. There were present: Presidents Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon, [Joseph F.] Smith and [Lorenzo] Snow; Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, and A[braham]. H. Cannon. President Joseph F. Smith by request, reported some proceedings at the Stake Conference of the M.I.A. at Logan [Utah] on Saturday and Sunday, May 23, and 24th. He said the question arose in regard to presenting the name of brother Moses Thatcher as one of the
General Superintendency of the Y.M.[M.]I.A. Elder Orson Smith had decided that if none of the First Presidency or Apostles were present, he would take the responsibility of withholding Brother Thatcher's name in presenting the authorities to the Conference, and avoid unpleasantness by withholding the names of all the General Superintendency on that occasion. A meeting was called of the M.I.A. Officers of the Stake, at which the question was fully discussed. Some of the brethren felt they had not the right to omit brother Thatcher's name, but finally the brethren became united in the propriety of withholding the name.
President Woodruff endorsed that view of the case, and said it was his duty to urge the Twelve to take up brother Moses Thatcher's case, as soon as the state of his health permitted.
President Lorenzo Snow informed President Woodruff that he and his brethren of the Twelve would meet and take such a course as the spirit of the Lord would suggest and circumstances rendered possible. ... (1)
... Lorenzo Snow expressed himself as being in perfect accord with the sentiments uttered by Pres[iden]t. Woodruff. Felt that Bro[ther] Thatcher was not worthy to stand as an Apostle. Referred to the troubles in the days of Kirtland [Ohio], and of the quarrel in the Kirtland Temple, where a Brother Parrish rose up and cursed Bro[ther] [Joseph] Smith, the father of the Prophet. Referred to the fact that so many of the leading officials fell at this time that it seemed as though the Church of God would be destroyed, but the Lord had sustained the brethren in disfellowshipping those who were not faithful, and he testified that the Lord would sustain us at all times in doing our duty. In case we take action against Bro[ther] Moses a great howl will go up over the matter, and we will be bitterly accused for lack of charity, etc. But he felt that this should not deter us from doing our duty in the premises.
Wilford Woodruff stated that the time had come for us to take action.
Bro[ther]s Snow and Lyman felt that it would be wise for the First Presidency to meet with the quorum of the Apostles when we had Bro[ther] Thatcher before us. Pres[iden]t George Q. Cannon did not think that the First Presidency should not meet with the quorum of Apostles and Bro[ther] Thatcher. He thought that the differences between Bro[ther] Thatcher and the quorum and the position which he was in was a matter which should be considered by the Apostles. He said he would state some things which he had never before mentioned, and one was that for many years he had had no confidence whatever in Bro[ther] Thatcher, as he had been guilty of circulating falsehoods against him. He referred to the fact that while he was in the penitentiary that Bro[ther] Thatcher had accused him of having money belonging to Bro[ther] Thatcher, and stated that he was going to start suit for the recovery of
this money. After Pres[iden]t Cannon had been liberated from the penitentiary he proved in the presence of the Apostles that not only was he not in debt to Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, but on the contrary, there was a small balance somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. due to him from Bro[ther] Thatcher, and that this amount was subsequently paid. Bro[ther] Moses, however, had never so much as apologized to him or to the quorum of Twelve Apostles for having made such an accusation and threatening to take one of his brethren before the courts of the land. Bro[ther] Cannon said he would be only too willing to forgive Bro[ther] Thatcher, provided he would pace himself in harmony with his quorum.
... It was finally decided that a meeting should be held with Bro[ther] Thatcher by the Apostles, and that the First Presidency should not attend said meeting. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, May 28, 1896
-- May 28, 1896
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] [Council meeting] Pres[iden]t Jos[eph] F. Smith gave us an account of his recent visit to Logan, where he attended the conference of the Young Men's Mutual Improvement Association. He stated that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher was in Logan, but did not attend the meeting. Stated that an officers' meeting was held at which the question as to whether or not the name of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher should be sustained at the Conference as one of the counselors to General Superintendent Woodruff was very extensively discussed. Some of the brethren feeling that the name should be presented and others that it should not be. It was finally decided not to present Bro[ther] Thatcher's name to the conference. Bro[ther] Smith explained that Bro[ther] Thatcher was talking with his friends in Logan, and carrying the impression that he was absolutely right in the position which he had taken, and was endeavoring, from all he could learn, to create a sympathy in his favor and a feeling of opposition against his brethren of the presidency and Apostles. He related of having heard of the conversation wherein a prominent man in talking of Bullion Beck and Champion matters, and the differences which had existed between Bro[ther]s Cannon and Thatcher, that this man had said that George Q. Cannon had tried to take advantage of widows and orphans, and that Bro[ther] Thatcher had opposed this and had endeavored to protect the interests of widows and orphans in this property. This prominent brother said that the best thing that could happen would be for George Q. Cannon to go out and die. President Smith felt that to allow any such outrageous falsehoods as this to be circulated among the people even in a private way was causing a very serious state of affairs, and he expressed it as his opinion that if Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher's health was sufficiently robust, that he could visit Logan and attend to business and other matters there that he was sufficiently strong physically for the quorum of the Apostles to hold a meeting with him and insist upon his harmonizing himself with his brethren, or that he should be disfellowshipped from the quorum. Prest. Wilford Woodruff said that the time had arrived when he felt it was his duty to insist upon action in this matter. Whenever anything or any individual has ever stood in the way if the advancement of the work of God, that thing or that man must be removed out of the way. He called upon Pres[iden]t Snow and his quorum to rise up and take action in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, and stated that it was the duty of the Apostles to take action. With Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher in his present state of mind the devil has a very strong advocate in him, and he should not be permitted to hold his present position unless he repents. God is not withholding his judgments from coming upon the nations of the earth. He is not staying his hand. Those angels, to whom I referred at Brigham City, who were to go forth and visit the judgements of God upon the nations, are at work. It is time something was done in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, and the sooner we commence and the better for all Isreal. Cannot allow the work of the Lord to stop for Moses Thatcher or any other man. Lorenzo Snow expressed himself as being in perfect accord with the sentiments uttered by Prest. Woodruff. Felt that Bro[ther] Thatcher was not worthy to stand as an Apostle. Referred to the troubles in the days of Kirtland, and of the quarrel in the Kirtland Temple, where a Brother Parrish rose up and cursed Bro[ther] Smith, the father of the Prophet. Referred to the fact that so many of the leading officials fell at this time that it seemed as though the Church of God would be destroyed, but the Lord had sustained the brethren in disfellowshipping those who were not faithful, and he testified that the Lord would sustain us at all times in doing our duty. In case we take action against Bro[ther] Moses a great howl will go up over the matter, and we will be bitterly accused for lack of charity, etc. But he felt that this should not deter us from doing our duty in the premises. (1)
-- Thursday, May 28, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. W. Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Jos. F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs & I met in Council.
Jos. F. Smith favored trying Moses Thatcher at once. Wilford Woodruff favored trying Moses Thatcher at once. Wilford Woodruff said it was our duty to see that Bro. Thatcher had a hearing just as soon as possible and that he be dealt with so as to prevent him from doing harm. Lorenzo Snow, Geo. Q. Gannon, F. D. Richards & B. Young favored actions just as soon as Moses health would permit. I felt we could not hurry matters. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] [Council meeting] Pres[iden]t Jos[eph] F. Smith gave us an account of his recent visit to Logan, where he attended the conference of the Young Men's Mutual Improvement Association. He stated that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher was in Logan, but did not attend the meeting. Stated that an officers' meeting was held at which the question as to whether or not the name of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher should be sustained at the Conference as one of the counselors to General Superintendent Woodruff was very extensively discussed. Some of the brethren feeling that the name should be presented and others that it should not be. It was finally decided not to present Bro[ther] Thatcher's name to the conference. Bro[ther] Smith explained that Bro[ther] Thatcher was talking with his friends in Logan, and carrying the impression that he was absolutely right in the position which he had taken, and was endeavoring, from all he could learn, to create a sympathy in his favor and a feeling of opposition against his brethren of the presidency and Apostles. He related of having heard of the conversation wherein a prominent man in talking of Bullion Beck and Champion matters, and the differences which had existed between Bro[ther]s Cannon and Thatcher, that this man had said that George Q. Cannon had tried to take advantage of widows and orphans, and that Bro[ther] Thatcher had opposed this and had endeavored to protect the interests of widows and orphans in this property. This prominent brother said that the best thing that could happen would be for George Q. Cannon to go out and die. President Smith felt that to allow any such outrageous falsehoods as this to be circulated among the people even in a private way was causing a very serious state of affairs, and he expressed it as his opinion that if Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher's health was sufficiently robust, that he could visit Logan and attend to business and other matters there that he was sufficiently strong physically for the quorum of the Apostles to hold a meeting with him and insist upon his harmonizing himself with his brethren, or that he should be disfellowshipped from the quorum. Prest. Wilford Woodruff said that the time had arrived when he felt it was his duty to insist upon action in this matter. Whenever anything or any individual has ever stood in the way if the advancement of the work of God, that thing or that man must be removed out of the way. He called upon Pres[iden]t Snow and his quorum to rise up and take action in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, and stated that it was the duty of the Apostles to take action. With Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher in his present state of mind the devil has a very strong advocate in him, and he should not be permitted to hold his present position unless he repents. God is not withholding his judgments from coming upon the nations of the earth. He is not staying his hand. Those angels, to whom I referred at Brigham City, who were to go forth and visit the judgements of God upon the nations, are at work. It is time something was done in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, and the sooner we commence and the better for all Isreal. Cannot allow the work of the Lord to stop for Moses Thatcher or any other man. Lorenzo Snow expressed himself as being in perfect accord with the sentiments uttered by Prest. Woodruff. Felt that Bro[ther] Thatcher was not worthy to stand as an Apostle. Referred to the troubles in the days of Kirtland, and of the quarrel in the Kirtland Temple, where a Brother Parrish rose up and cursed Bro[ther] Smith, the father of the Prophet. Referred to the fact that so many of the leading officials fell at this time that it seemed as though the Church of God would be destroyed, but the Lord had sustained the brethren in disfellowshipping those who were not faithful, and he testified that the Lord would sustain us at all times in doing our duty. In case we take action against Bro[ther] Moses a great howl will go up over the matter, and we will be bitterly accused for lack of charity, etc. But he felt that this should not deter us from doing our duty in the premises. (1)
-- Thursday, May 28, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. W. Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Jos. F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs & I met in Council.
Jos. F. Smith favored trying Moses Thatcher at once. Wilford Woodruff favored trying Moses Thatcher at once. Wilford Woodruff said it was our duty to see that Bro. Thatcher had a hearing just as soon as possible and that he be dealt with so as to prevent him from doing harm. Lorenzo Snow, Geo. Q. Gannon, F. D. Richards & B. Young favored actions just as soon as Moses health would permit. I felt we could not hurry matters. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Apr 30, 1896
-- Thursday, Apr 30, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto. (1)
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto.
Mr. Timothy Egan hold[s] a Tax Title to the Carrington property which belongs [to] the Church. The title is in me. (1)
-- Thursday, May 7, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council at the Temple. Francis M. Lyman and I am to go to Bear Lake Co. Idaho to adjust some troubles. I[t] was determined in the Council that in all of the Forms of Baptism the words "Renewal of your Covenants and Remission of your sin" should be left out. A letter is to be sent to all of the Temples to that effect. (1)
-- May 7, 1896
The meeting of the First Presidency and Apostles was held at the Temple at 11 A.M. There were present Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon and [Joseph F.] Smith; and of the Twelve, Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow, and Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon. ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow called attention to the form of baptism used in the Temples on behalf of the dead, in which the words "for the remission of your sins" were interpolated, being different from the form of baptism for the living. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Journal History; Charles W. Penrose, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto. (1)
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto.
Mr. Timothy Egan hold[s] a Tax Title to the Carrington property which belongs [to] the Church. The title is in me. (1)
-- Thursday, May 7, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council at the Temple. Francis M. Lyman and I am to go to Bear Lake Co. Idaho to adjust some troubles. I[t] was determined in the Council that in all of the Forms of Baptism the words "Renewal of your Covenants and Remission of your sin" should be left out. A letter is to be sent to all of the Temples to that effect. (1)
-- May 7, 1896
The meeting of the First Presidency and Apostles was held at the Temple at 11 A.M. There were present Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon and [Joseph F.] Smith; and of the Twelve, Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow, and Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon. ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow called attention to the form of baptism used in the Temples on behalf of the dead, in which the words "for the remission of your sins" were interpolated, being different from the form of baptism for the living. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Journal History; Charles W. Penrose, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Apr 30, 1896
-- Thursday, Apr 30, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto. (1)
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto.
Mr. Timothy Egan hold[s] a Tax Title to the Carrington property which belongs [to] the Church. The title is in me. (1)
-- Thursday, May 7, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council at the Temple. Francis M. Lyman and I am to go to Bear Lake Co. Idaho to adjust some troubles. I[t] was determined in the Council that in all of the Forms of Baptism the words "Renewal of your Covenants and Remission of your sin" should be left out. A letter is to be sent to all of the Temples to that effect. (1)
-- May 7, 1896
The meeting of the First Presidency and Apostles was held at the Temple at 11 A.M. There were present Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon and [Joseph F.] Smith; and of the Twelve, Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow, and Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon. ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow called attention to the form of baptism used in the Temples on behalf of the dead, in which the words "for the remission of your sins" were interpolated, being different from the form of baptism for the living. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Journal History; Charles W. Penrose, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto. (1)
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council. Some matters were talked over. President Snow spoke in regard to the scope of the Manifesto.
Mr. Timothy Egan hold[s] a Tax Title to the Carrington property which belongs [to] the Church. The title is in me. (1)
-- Thursday, May 7, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. Wilford Woodruff, Geo. Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Francis M. Lyman, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Abraham H. Cannon, G. F. Gibbs and I met in Council at the Temple. Francis M. Lyman and I am to go to Bear Lake Co. Idaho to adjust some troubles. I[t] was determined in the Council that in all of the Forms of Baptism the words "Renewal of your Covenants and Remission of your sin" should be left out. A letter is to be sent to all of the Temples to that effect. (1)
-- May 7, 1896
The meeting of the First Presidency and Apostles was held at the Temple at 11 A.M. There were present Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon and [Joseph F.] Smith; and of the Twelve, Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow, and Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, F[rancis]. M. Lyman, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, J[ohn]. W. Taylor and A[braham]. H. Cannon. ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow called attention to the form of baptism used in the Temples on behalf of the dead, in which the words "for the remission of your sins" were interpolated, being different from the form of baptism for the living. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Journal History; Charles W. Penrose, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Thursday, Apr 23, 1896
-- Thursday, Apr 23, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. W. Woodruff, Jos. F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, F. M. Lyman, Myself, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill and Abraham H. Cannon met at the Temple and had prayer. Prest. Jos. F. Smith['s] sermon on the [Political] Manifesto at Provo came up for consideration but no decision was reached, only opinions expressed. I feel Bro. Jos. F. construction of the Manifesto cuts to[o] deep and will cause trouble for our people everywhere. The Question of putting up monuments to our martyred brethren on the Temple block was discussed but not passed upon. (1)
-- Apr 23, 1896
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. At Salt Lake. I called on President Snow at the Temple as per request by telegram and learned from him that my name had been suggested to go to England and preside over the European Mission. ... (2)
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. At Salt Lake. I called on President Snow at the Temple as per request by telegram and learned from him that my name had been suggested to go to England and preside over the European Mission. I anticipated this, hence was not surprised. Met at our room with President Woodruff and President Joseph F. Smith and nine of the Apostles present. Discussed about the meaning of the recent public address. My name was also discussed about the said mission. I expressed myself as willing entirely to go and do the best I could, if the Brethren thought my physical condition was such that I could go. President Woodruff, President Joseph F. Smith, also Lorenzo Snow thought a more healthy man should be selected, and the meeting adjourned without an expression of the Brethren being taken. I called at the Temple dining room, took lunch, then went to the President's office and discussed further with Presidents Woodruff and Smith (President Cannon being in New York) about my going to England. They both felt that I should not go, as before expressed. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Prest. W. Woodruff, Jos. F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, F. M. Lyman, Myself, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill and Abraham H. Cannon met at the Temple and had prayer. Prest. Jos. F. Smith['s] sermon on the [Political] Manifesto at Provo came up for consideration but no decision was reached, only opinions expressed. I feel Bro. Jos. F. construction of the Manifesto cuts to[o] deep and will cause trouble for our people everywhere. The Question of putting up monuments to our martyred brethren on the Temple block was discussed but not passed upon. (1)
-- Apr 23, 1896
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. At Salt Lake. I called on President Snow at the Temple as per request by telegram and learned from him that my name had been suggested to go to England and preside over the European Mission. ... (2)
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Thursday. At Salt Lake. I called on President Snow at the Temple as per request by telegram and learned from him that my name had been suggested to go to England and preside over the European Mission. I anticipated this, hence was not surprised. Met at our room with President Woodruff and President Joseph F. Smith and nine of the Apostles present. Discussed about the meaning of the recent public address. My name was also discussed about the said mission. I expressed myself as willing entirely to go and do the best I could, if the Brethren thought my physical condition was such that I could go. President Woodruff, President Joseph F. Smith, also Lorenzo Snow thought a more healthy man should be selected, and the meeting adjourned without an expression of the Brethren being taken. I called at the Temple dining room, took lunch, then went to the President's office and discussed further with Presidents Woodruff and Smith (President Cannon being in New York) about my going to England. They both felt that I should not go, as before expressed. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
2 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Apr 6, 1896
-- Apr 6, 1896
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Monday. I attended meeting in the President's office at 8:30 a. m. to further discuss the address to the Conference and to be published to the world, and signed the same. The First Presidency and ten of the Apostles with the First Seven Presidents of Seventies, the Patriarch, and Bishop Preston and Counselors all signed the address. President Snow and Apostle B. Young were appointed to see Apostle Thatcher about signing the address. They were appointed at the morning meeting in the President's office. In the afternoon the Authorities of the Church were presented and unanimously sustained, all but Apostle Thatcher, who, on the report of President Snow and B. Young, refused to sign the address above referred to, and his name was not presented to the Conference. (1)
-- 1896, April 6
LDS "Political Manifesto" issued at General Conference. (2)
-- Apr 6, 1896
Political "Manifesto" of the L.D.S. Church-- The document reproduced below is usually known in both L.D.S. and non-L.D.S. circles and literature as the "Political Manifesto of the Church." The literature dealing with this "Manifesto" and the events that led up to its issuance are voluminous. The issues discussed in it also involve three prominent cases of L.D.S. General Authorities and their relationships to federal office holding. The first two are those of Moses Thatcher, member of the Council of Twelve Apostles, and B. H. Roberts, of the First Council of Seventy. It was largely a result of their candidacy in the 1895 election for Senator and Representative from Utah on the Democratic ticket, and the attendant circumstances, that this "Manifest" was issued. The "Manifesto" came up for discussion again in 1904 when another member of the Council of Twelve Apostles, Reed Smoot, was elected to the United States Senate. His being seated was challenged on the grounds, among other charges, of political domination by the L.D.S. Church.
The Deseret News Weekly, The Salt Lake Tribune and the Salt Lake Herald for 1895 and 1896 are full of reports and discussions of the issues involved in this "Manifesto". It is discussed in great detail in the testimony taken in the Reed Smoot hearing (Smoot Hearings, United States Senate, Volume 1) and in a pamphlet entitled The Manifesto in Politics published by Calvin Reasoner, December 22, 1896, an original copy of which is on file in the Special Collections Library at Brigham Young University.
Perhaps the best brief analysis of the circumstances leading up to the issuance of the "Manifesto" by the First Presidency is given by one of the principals in the situation, namely, B. H. Roberts. His analysis and summary are found in CHC 6:330-336. His footnotes give valuable references to sources where the serious student may follow the background in greater detail.
A personal touch to the background for the issuance of this "Manifesto" by the First Presidency is given by John M. Whitaker in his personal diary. Whitaker was General Secretary to the L.D.S. Sunday Schools and also General Secretary and Treasurer of the First Council of Seventy. He knew all of the general authorities of the L.D.S. Church rather intimately and appears to have had their confidence. His reaction and analysis of the situation leading up to the issuance of the "Manifesto" are informative:
Journal of John M. Whitaker, 1847-1949, p. 83-84 entry for December 1, 1895
During the last campaign much bitterness was manifest and many leading Church authorities especially on the Democratic side manifestintense bitterness against the general Church Authorities for what the Democrats said was direct whisperings and "Republican" influence against their democratic nominees [Whitaker was a Democrat] ... I was call [sic] into the office of the First Presidency and in the back office President George Q. Cannon called my attention to the "severe and caustic statements of President Roberts against the unwarranted interference of the First Presidency and some of the Twelve in political matters and whisperin [sic] campaign and that manifested such a bitter spirit that we have had the matter under discussion for some time. We do not wish in the least to do anything to give color to the thought that we sustain his political talks and his actions in the last campaign; or that we in the least countenance his works and actions and his course; at the same time we do not wish to do anything that would hurt him in the least; but the course he has taken if followed by members of the First Council [of seventy] would lead to disunion and disruption, and we cannot fellowship him until he has made them right." At this point President Wilford Woodruff came in and told me practically the same things. ... They told me other things I shall not write in my journal. They feel deeply hurt at the strong and unauthorized stand as they say, against the wisdom and announced decisions of the general authorities of the Church. I felt terrible, because I followed the talks and political arguments on both sides and at the time wished neither side had to me lowered the dignity of debate and harangues in bringing into public pictures and discussions church influence, church interference, but had left to every person the right to think and decide for themselves.
B. H. Roberts, according to Whitaker, was put on trial before the First Presidency and Quorum of Twelve Apostles on February 13. His entry in his journal for that day is as follows:
The TRIAL of B. H. Roberts commenced before the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. The brethren tried all day to get him to cease his attacks and to acknowledge his wrong but to no purpose,-at least [sic] after pleading and many of the brethren weeping for his defiance to authority all seemed to no avail,-he finally made acknowledgment and there was such rejoicing that he had not been severed from the Church. ... The Church needs such defenders, and he is among the ablest.
The cases of B. H. Roberts and Moses Thatcher arose out of the same set of circumstances. B. H. Roberts, as indicated above was finally able to accept the decision of the First Presidency and subsequently joined with them in signing the "Manifesto" of April 6, 1896. Moses Thatcher was unable to accept "counsel", refused to sign the "Manifesto" and was dropped from his position in the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and there ensued a long drawn out verbal controversy with the presiding councils of the Church. The official notice of his suspension is reproduced later in this volume under a date of October 24, 1896.
The "whispering campaign" mentioned as being substantial cause for this whole political controversy as Utah entered statehood on January 4, 1896 seems still to be (1966) a part of the political scene in Utah seventy years later. In the most recent general election in Utah, the First Presidency of the L.D.S. Church again issued a "Manifesto" reiterating the stand taken seventy years ago that the Church has no official candidates for political office. Such repeated announcements made by the First Presidency over the seventy year period since statehood in Utah have still not prevented "whisperings" that the Church supports this or that candidate. Nearly every new election seems to raise the issues of 1896 ever again. Each new generation of Mormons seem to need education in the political stand, policy, and philosophy of their Church.
TO THE SAINTS:
To the officers and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in General Conference assembled.
DEAR BRETHREN AND SISTERS: Every Latter-day Saint will recognize the value of union, not only in action but in matters of faith and discipline. As to the rights and authority of the Priesthood of the Son of God, it is of the highest importance that there should be no difference of opinion among the officers and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Feeling the necessity of a correct understanding of this principle, we deem it proper at this sixty-sixth anniversary of the organization of the Church in these last days, to prepare and present a statement on the subject, embodying the doctrine which has always prevailed in the Church, and our views upon it. We are prompted to adopt this course at the present time because of events which have happened during the late political contest. A great diversity of opinion on the subject has been expressed, and even by leading Elders in the Church, which latter fact has naturally led in some instances to considerable division of sentiment.
It is of great importance that we understand each other and that there be harmony in our teachings. It is especially important that these teachings shall be in accordance with the rules and regulations and doctrines which have been taught and which have prevailed from the beginning until the present time, having not only the sanction of undisputed usage, but the approval of all faithful leaders in the Church and of Him in whose name and by whose authority they act.
In the late exciting contest, to which reference has been made, the presiding authorities to some instances have been misunderstood. In other instances they have been misrepresented, which has led to a wrongful conception of their real views. It has been asserted too freely, and without foundation, that there has been a disposition on their part to interfere with individual liberty and to rebuke in some men a course which was applauded in others. In a word, that they have appeared to desire to assert and maintain an unjust and oppressive control over the actions of the members of the Church, and in thus doing have endeavored to effect a union of Church and State. In the heat of political discussion, assertions have been made and arguments used conveying to the public mind a false idea concerning the position of the officers of the Church, and leaving the impression that there has been and was now being made an attempt to accomplish the union above referred to. Now that the excitement has passed, and calmer reason has resumed its sway, we think it prudent to set forth, so that all may understand, the exact position occupied by the leading authorities of the Church.
In the first place we wish to state in the most positive and emphatic language that at no time has there ever been any attempt or even desire on the part of the leading authorities referred to to have the Church in any manner encroach upon the rights of the State or to unite in any degree the functions of the one with those of the other.
Peculiar circumstances have surrounded the people of Utah. For many years a majority of them in every portion of the Territory belonged to one Church, every reputable member of which was entitled to hold and did hold some ecclesiastical office. It is easy to see how, to the casual observer, it might appear singular that so many officers of the Church were also officers of the State; but while this was in fact the case, the distinction between the Church and the State throughout those years was carefully maintained. The President of the Church held for eight years the highest civil office in the community, having been appointed by the national administration governor of the Territory. The first secretary of the Territory was a prominent Church official. An Apostle represented the Territory in Congress as a delegate during ten years. The members of the Legislature held also offices in the Church. This was unavoidable; for the most suitable men were elected by the votes of the people, and, as we have stated, every reputable man in the entire community held some Church position, the most energetic and capable holding leading positions. This is all natural and plain enough to those who consider the circumstances; but it furnished opportunity for those who were disposed to assail the people of the Territory to charge them with attempting to unite Church and State. A fair investigation of the conditions will abundantly disprove the charge and show its utter falsity.
On behalf of the Church of which we are leading officers, we desire again to state to the members and also to the public generally, that there has not been, or is there, the remotest desire on our part or on the part of our co-religionists to do anything looking to a union of Church and State.
We declare that there has never been any attempt to curtail individual liberty-the personal liberty of any of the officers or members of the Church. The First Presidency and other leading officers did make certain suggestions to the people when the division on party lines took place. That movement was an entirely new departure, and it was necessary, in order that the full benefit should not be lost which was hoped to result from this new political division, that people who were inexperienced should be warned against hasty and ill-considered action. In some cases they were counseled to be wise and prudent in the political steps they were about to take, and this with no idea of winning them against their will to either side. To this extent, and no further, was anything said or done upon this question, and at no time and under no circumstances was any attempt made to say to voters how they should cast their ballots. Any charge that has been made to the contrary is utterly false.
Concerning officers of the Church themselves, the feeling was generally expressed in the beginning of the political division spoken of that it would be prudent for leading men not to accept of office at the hands of the political party to which they might belong. This counsel was given to men of both parties alike-not because it was thought that there was any impropriety in religious men holding civil office, not to deprive them of any of the rights of citizenship, but because of the feeling that it would be better under all the circumstances which had now arisen to avoid any action that would be likely to create jealousy and ill-feeling. An era of peace and good-will seemed to be dawning upon the people, and it was deemed good to shun everything that could have the least tendency to prevent the consummation of this happy prospect. In many instances, however, the pressure brought to bear upon efficient and popular men by the members of the parties to which they belonged was of such a character that they had to yield to the solicitation to accept nomination to office, or subject themselves to the suspicion of bad faith in their party affiliations. In some cases they did this without consulting the authorities of the Church; but where important positions were held, and where the duties were of a responsible and exacting character, some did seek the counsel and advice of the leading Church authorities before accepting the political honors tendered them. Because some others did not seek this counsel and advice, ill-feeling was engendered, and undue and painful sensitiveness was stimulated; misunderstanding readily followed, and as a result the authorities of the Church were accused of bad faith and made the subjects of bitter reproach. We have maintained that in the case of men who hold high positions in the Church, whose duties are well defined, and whose ecclesiastical labors are understood to be continuous and necessary, it would be an improper thing to accept political office or enter into any vocation that would distract or remove them from the religious duties resting upon them, without first consulting and obtaining the approval of their associates and those who preside over them. It has been understood from the very beginning of the Church that no officer whose duties are of the character referred to, has the right to engage in any pursuit, political or otherwise, that will divide his time and remove his attention from the calling already accepted. It has been the constant practice with officers of the Church to consult or, to use our language, to "counsel" with their brethren concerning all questions of this kind. They have not felt that they were sacrificing their manhood in doing so, nor that they were submitting to improper dictation, nor that in soliciting and acting upon the advice of those over them, they were in any manner doing away with their individual rights and agency, nor that to any improper degree were their rights and duties as American citizens being abridged or interfered with. They realized that in accepting ecclesiastical office they assumed certain obligations; that among these was the obligation to magnify the office which they held, to attend to its duties in preference to every other labor, and to devote themselves exclusively to it with all the zeal, industry and strength they possessed, unless released in part or for a time by those who preside over them. Our view, and it has been the view of all our predecessors, is that no officer of our Church, especially those in high standing, should take a course to violate this long-established practice. Rather than disobey it, and declare himself by his actions defiantly independent of his associates and his file leaders, it has always been held that it would be better for a man to resign the duties of his Priesthood: and we entertain the same view today.
In view of all the occurrences to which reference has been made, and to the diversity of views that have arisen among the people in consequence, we feel it to be our duty to clearly define our position, so there may be no cause hereafter for dispute or controversy upon the subject:
First-We unanimously agree to and promulgate as a rule that should always be observed in the Church and by every leading official thereof, that before accepting any position, political or otherwise, which would interfere with the proper and complete discharge of his ecclesiastical duties, and before accepting a nomination or entering into engagements to perform new duties, said official should apply to the proper authorities and learn from them whether he can, consistently with the obligations already entered into with the Church upon assuming his office, take upon himself the added duties and labors and responsibilities of the new position. To maintain proper discipline and order in the Church, we deem this absolutely necessary; and in asserting this rule, we do not consider that we are infringing in the least degree upon the individual rights of the citizen. Our position is that a man having accepted the honors and obligations of ecclesiastical office in the Church cannot properly of his own volition make those honors subordinate to or even coordinate with new ones of an entirely different character; we hold that unless he is willing to counsel with and obtain the consent of his fellow-laborers and presiding officers in the Priesthood, he should be released from all obligations associated with the latter, before accepting any new position.
Second-We declare that in making these requirements of ourselves and our brethren in the ministry, we do not in the least desire to dictate to them concerning their duties as American citizens, or to interfere with the affairs of the State; neither do we consider that in the remotest degree we are seeking the union of Church and State. We once more here repudiate the insinuation that there is or ever has been an attempt by our leading men to trespass upon the ground occupied by the State, or that there has been or is the wish to curtail in any manner any of its functions.
Your brethren, WILFORD WOODRUFF, GEORGE Q CANNON, JOSEPH F. SMITH, First Presidency.
LORENZO SNOW, F. D. RICHARDS, BRIGHAM YOUNG, FRANCIS M. LYMAN, JOHN HENRY SMITH, GEORGE TEASDALE, HEBER J. GRANT, JOHN W. TAYLOR, MARRINER W. MERRILL, ABRAHAM H. CANNON, Apostles.
JOHN SMITH, Patriarch.
SEYMOUR B. YOUNG, C. D. FJELDSTED, B. H. ROBERTS, GEORGE REYNOLDS, JONATHAN G. KIMBALL, RULON S. WELLS, EDWARD STEVENSON, First Council of Seventies.
WM. B. PRESTON, R. T. BURTON, JOHN R. WINDER, Presiding Bishopric.
SALT LAKE CITY, April 6th, 1896.
NOTE-The reason the signature of Apostle Anton H. Lund does not appear in connection with those of his quorum is because he is absent, presiding over the European mission. He, however, will be given the opportunity of appending his signature when he returns home. {1896-April 6-Deseret Weekly, April 6, 1896, p. 533-534.} (3)
Endnotes:
1 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Ludlow, Daniel H. editor, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Publishing, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 4, Appendix 2: A Chronology of Church History, http://amzn.to/eG0DIp
3 - Clark, James R., Messages of the First Presidency (6 volumes)
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Apostle Marriner W. Merrill Diary] Monday. I attended meeting in the President's office at 8:30 a. m. to further discuss the address to the Conference and to be published to the world, and signed the same. The First Presidency and ten of the Apostles with the First Seven Presidents of Seventies, the Patriarch, and Bishop Preston and Counselors all signed the address. President Snow and Apostle B. Young were appointed to see Apostle Thatcher about signing the address. They were appointed at the morning meeting in the President's office. In the afternoon the Authorities of the Church were presented and unanimously sustained, all but Apostle Thatcher, who, on the report of President Snow and B. Young, refused to sign the address above referred to, and his name was not presented to the Conference. (1)
-- 1896, April 6
LDS "Political Manifesto" issued at General Conference. (2)
-- Apr 6, 1896
Political "Manifesto" of the L.D.S. Church-- The document reproduced below is usually known in both L.D.S. and non-L.D.S. circles and literature as the "Political Manifesto of the Church." The literature dealing with this "Manifesto" and the events that led up to its issuance are voluminous. The issues discussed in it also involve three prominent cases of L.D.S. General Authorities and their relationships to federal office holding. The first two are those of Moses Thatcher, member of the Council of Twelve Apostles, and B. H. Roberts, of the First Council of Seventy. It was largely a result of their candidacy in the 1895 election for Senator and Representative from Utah on the Democratic ticket, and the attendant circumstances, that this "Manifest" was issued. The "Manifesto" came up for discussion again in 1904 when another member of the Council of Twelve Apostles, Reed Smoot, was elected to the United States Senate. His being seated was challenged on the grounds, among other charges, of political domination by the L.D.S. Church.
The Deseret News Weekly, The Salt Lake Tribune and the Salt Lake Herald for 1895 and 1896 are full of reports and discussions of the issues involved in this "Manifesto". It is discussed in great detail in the testimony taken in the Reed Smoot hearing (Smoot Hearings, United States Senate, Volume 1) and in a pamphlet entitled The Manifesto in Politics published by Calvin Reasoner, December 22, 1896, an original copy of which is on file in the Special Collections Library at Brigham Young University.
Perhaps the best brief analysis of the circumstances leading up to the issuance of the "Manifesto" by the First Presidency is given by one of the principals in the situation, namely, B. H. Roberts. His analysis and summary are found in CHC 6:330-336. His footnotes give valuable references to sources where the serious student may follow the background in greater detail.
A personal touch to the background for the issuance of this "Manifesto" by the First Presidency is given by John M. Whitaker in his personal diary. Whitaker was General Secretary to the L.D.S. Sunday Schools and also General Secretary and Treasurer of the First Council of Seventy. He knew all of the general authorities of the L.D.S. Church rather intimately and appears to have had their confidence. His reaction and analysis of the situation leading up to the issuance of the "Manifesto" are informative:
Journal of John M. Whitaker, 1847-1949, p. 83-84 entry for December 1, 1895
During the last campaign much bitterness was manifest and many leading Church authorities especially on the Democratic side manifestintense bitterness against the general Church Authorities for what the Democrats said was direct whisperings and "Republican" influence against their democratic nominees [Whitaker was a Democrat] ... I was call [sic] into the office of the First Presidency and in the back office President George Q. Cannon called my attention to the "severe and caustic statements of President Roberts against the unwarranted interference of the First Presidency and some of the Twelve in political matters and whisperin [sic] campaign and that manifested such a bitter spirit that we have had the matter under discussion for some time. We do not wish in the least to do anything to give color to the thought that we sustain his political talks and his actions in the last campaign; or that we in the least countenance his works and actions and his course; at the same time we do not wish to do anything that would hurt him in the least; but the course he has taken if followed by members of the First Council [of seventy] would lead to disunion and disruption, and we cannot fellowship him until he has made them right." At this point President Wilford Woodruff came in and told me practically the same things. ... They told me other things I shall not write in my journal. They feel deeply hurt at the strong and unauthorized stand as they say, against the wisdom and announced decisions of the general authorities of the Church. I felt terrible, because I followed the talks and political arguments on both sides and at the time wished neither side had to me lowered the dignity of debate and harangues in bringing into public pictures and discussions church influence, church interference, but had left to every person the right to think and decide for themselves.
B. H. Roberts, according to Whitaker, was put on trial before the First Presidency and Quorum of Twelve Apostles on February 13. His entry in his journal for that day is as follows:
The TRIAL of B. H. Roberts commenced before the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. The brethren tried all day to get him to cease his attacks and to acknowledge his wrong but to no purpose,-at least [sic] after pleading and many of the brethren weeping for his defiance to authority all seemed to no avail,-he finally made acknowledgment and there was such rejoicing that he had not been severed from the Church. ... The Church needs such defenders, and he is among the ablest.
The cases of B. H. Roberts and Moses Thatcher arose out of the same set of circumstances. B. H. Roberts, as indicated above was finally able to accept the decision of the First Presidency and subsequently joined with them in signing the "Manifesto" of April 6, 1896. Moses Thatcher was unable to accept "counsel", refused to sign the "Manifesto" and was dropped from his position in the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and there ensued a long drawn out verbal controversy with the presiding councils of the Church. The official notice of his suspension is reproduced later in this volume under a date of October 24, 1896.
The "whispering campaign" mentioned as being substantial cause for this whole political controversy as Utah entered statehood on January 4, 1896 seems still to be (1966) a part of the political scene in Utah seventy years later. In the most recent general election in Utah, the First Presidency of the L.D.S. Church again issued a "Manifesto" reiterating the stand taken seventy years ago that the Church has no official candidates for political office. Such repeated announcements made by the First Presidency over the seventy year period since statehood in Utah have still not prevented "whisperings" that the Church supports this or that candidate. Nearly every new election seems to raise the issues of 1896 ever again. Each new generation of Mormons seem to need education in the political stand, policy, and philosophy of their Church.
TO THE SAINTS:
To the officers and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in General Conference assembled.
DEAR BRETHREN AND SISTERS: Every Latter-day Saint will recognize the value of union, not only in action but in matters of faith and discipline. As to the rights and authority of the Priesthood of the Son of God, it is of the highest importance that there should be no difference of opinion among the officers and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Feeling the necessity of a correct understanding of this principle, we deem it proper at this sixty-sixth anniversary of the organization of the Church in these last days, to prepare and present a statement on the subject, embodying the doctrine which has always prevailed in the Church, and our views upon it. We are prompted to adopt this course at the present time because of events which have happened during the late political contest. A great diversity of opinion on the subject has been expressed, and even by leading Elders in the Church, which latter fact has naturally led in some instances to considerable division of sentiment.
It is of great importance that we understand each other and that there be harmony in our teachings. It is especially important that these teachings shall be in accordance with the rules and regulations and doctrines which have been taught and which have prevailed from the beginning until the present time, having not only the sanction of undisputed usage, but the approval of all faithful leaders in the Church and of Him in whose name and by whose authority they act.
In the late exciting contest, to which reference has been made, the presiding authorities to some instances have been misunderstood. In other instances they have been misrepresented, which has led to a wrongful conception of their real views. It has been asserted too freely, and without foundation, that there has been a disposition on their part to interfere with individual liberty and to rebuke in some men a course which was applauded in others. In a word, that they have appeared to desire to assert and maintain an unjust and oppressive control over the actions of the members of the Church, and in thus doing have endeavored to effect a union of Church and State. In the heat of political discussion, assertions have been made and arguments used conveying to the public mind a false idea concerning the position of the officers of the Church, and leaving the impression that there has been and was now being made an attempt to accomplish the union above referred to. Now that the excitement has passed, and calmer reason has resumed its sway, we think it prudent to set forth, so that all may understand, the exact position occupied by the leading authorities of the Church.
In the first place we wish to state in the most positive and emphatic language that at no time has there ever been any attempt or even desire on the part of the leading authorities referred to to have the Church in any manner encroach upon the rights of the State or to unite in any degree the functions of the one with those of the other.
Peculiar circumstances have surrounded the people of Utah. For many years a majority of them in every portion of the Territory belonged to one Church, every reputable member of which was entitled to hold and did hold some ecclesiastical office. It is easy to see how, to the casual observer, it might appear singular that so many officers of the Church were also officers of the State; but while this was in fact the case, the distinction between the Church and the State throughout those years was carefully maintained. The President of the Church held for eight years the highest civil office in the community, having been appointed by the national administration governor of the Territory. The first secretary of the Territory was a prominent Church official. An Apostle represented the Territory in Congress as a delegate during ten years. The members of the Legislature held also offices in the Church. This was unavoidable; for the most suitable men were elected by the votes of the people, and, as we have stated, every reputable man in the entire community held some Church position, the most energetic and capable holding leading positions. This is all natural and plain enough to those who consider the circumstances; but it furnished opportunity for those who were disposed to assail the people of the Territory to charge them with attempting to unite Church and State. A fair investigation of the conditions will abundantly disprove the charge and show its utter falsity.
On behalf of the Church of which we are leading officers, we desire again to state to the members and also to the public generally, that there has not been, or is there, the remotest desire on our part or on the part of our co-religionists to do anything looking to a union of Church and State.
We declare that there has never been any attempt to curtail individual liberty-the personal liberty of any of the officers or members of the Church. The First Presidency and other leading officers did make certain suggestions to the people when the division on party lines took place. That movement was an entirely new departure, and it was necessary, in order that the full benefit should not be lost which was hoped to result from this new political division, that people who were inexperienced should be warned against hasty and ill-considered action. In some cases they were counseled to be wise and prudent in the political steps they were about to take, and this with no idea of winning them against their will to either side. To this extent, and no further, was anything said or done upon this question, and at no time and under no circumstances was any attempt made to say to voters how they should cast their ballots. Any charge that has been made to the contrary is utterly false.
Concerning officers of the Church themselves, the feeling was generally expressed in the beginning of the political division spoken of that it would be prudent for leading men not to accept of office at the hands of the political party to which they might belong. This counsel was given to men of both parties alike-not because it was thought that there was any impropriety in religious men holding civil office, not to deprive them of any of the rights of citizenship, but because of the feeling that it would be better under all the circumstances which had now arisen to avoid any action that would be likely to create jealousy and ill-feeling. An era of peace and good-will seemed to be dawning upon the people, and it was deemed good to shun everything that could have the least tendency to prevent the consummation of this happy prospect. In many instances, however, the pressure brought to bear upon efficient and popular men by the members of the parties to which they belonged was of such a character that they had to yield to the solicitation to accept nomination to office, or subject themselves to the suspicion of bad faith in their party affiliations. In some cases they did this without consulting the authorities of the Church; but where important positions were held, and where the duties were of a responsible and exacting character, some did seek the counsel and advice of the leading Church authorities before accepting the political honors tendered them. Because some others did not seek this counsel and advice, ill-feeling was engendered, and undue and painful sensitiveness was stimulated; misunderstanding readily followed, and as a result the authorities of the Church were accused of bad faith and made the subjects of bitter reproach. We have maintained that in the case of men who hold high positions in the Church, whose duties are well defined, and whose ecclesiastical labors are understood to be continuous and necessary, it would be an improper thing to accept political office or enter into any vocation that would distract or remove them from the religious duties resting upon them, without first consulting and obtaining the approval of their associates and those who preside over them. It has been understood from the very beginning of the Church that no officer whose duties are of the character referred to, has the right to engage in any pursuit, political or otherwise, that will divide his time and remove his attention from the calling already accepted. It has been the constant practice with officers of the Church to consult or, to use our language, to "counsel" with their brethren concerning all questions of this kind. They have not felt that they were sacrificing their manhood in doing so, nor that they were submitting to improper dictation, nor that in soliciting and acting upon the advice of those over them, they were in any manner doing away with their individual rights and agency, nor that to any improper degree were their rights and duties as American citizens being abridged or interfered with. They realized that in accepting ecclesiastical office they assumed certain obligations; that among these was the obligation to magnify the office which they held, to attend to its duties in preference to every other labor, and to devote themselves exclusively to it with all the zeal, industry and strength they possessed, unless released in part or for a time by those who preside over them. Our view, and it has been the view of all our predecessors, is that no officer of our Church, especially those in high standing, should take a course to violate this long-established practice. Rather than disobey it, and declare himself by his actions defiantly independent of his associates and his file leaders, it has always been held that it would be better for a man to resign the duties of his Priesthood: and we entertain the same view today.
In view of all the occurrences to which reference has been made, and to the diversity of views that have arisen among the people in consequence, we feel it to be our duty to clearly define our position, so there may be no cause hereafter for dispute or controversy upon the subject:
First-We unanimously agree to and promulgate as a rule that should always be observed in the Church and by every leading official thereof, that before accepting any position, political or otherwise, which would interfere with the proper and complete discharge of his ecclesiastical duties, and before accepting a nomination or entering into engagements to perform new duties, said official should apply to the proper authorities and learn from them whether he can, consistently with the obligations already entered into with the Church upon assuming his office, take upon himself the added duties and labors and responsibilities of the new position. To maintain proper discipline and order in the Church, we deem this absolutely necessary; and in asserting this rule, we do not consider that we are infringing in the least degree upon the individual rights of the citizen. Our position is that a man having accepted the honors and obligations of ecclesiastical office in the Church cannot properly of his own volition make those honors subordinate to or even coordinate with new ones of an entirely different character; we hold that unless he is willing to counsel with and obtain the consent of his fellow-laborers and presiding officers in the Priesthood, he should be released from all obligations associated with the latter, before accepting any new position.
Second-We declare that in making these requirements of ourselves and our brethren in the ministry, we do not in the least desire to dictate to them concerning their duties as American citizens, or to interfere with the affairs of the State; neither do we consider that in the remotest degree we are seeking the union of Church and State. We once more here repudiate the insinuation that there is or ever has been an attempt by our leading men to trespass upon the ground occupied by the State, or that there has been or is the wish to curtail in any manner any of its functions.
Your brethren, WILFORD WOODRUFF, GEORGE Q CANNON, JOSEPH F. SMITH, First Presidency.
LORENZO SNOW, F. D. RICHARDS, BRIGHAM YOUNG, FRANCIS M. LYMAN, JOHN HENRY SMITH, GEORGE TEASDALE, HEBER J. GRANT, JOHN W. TAYLOR, MARRINER W. MERRILL, ABRAHAM H. CANNON, Apostles.
JOHN SMITH, Patriarch.
SEYMOUR B. YOUNG, C. D. FJELDSTED, B. H. ROBERTS, GEORGE REYNOLDS, JONATHAN G. KIMBALL, RULON S. WELLS, EDWARD STEVENSON, First Council of Seventies.
WM. B. PRESTON, R. T. BURTON, JOHN R. WINDER, Presiding Bishopric.
SALT LAKE CITY, April 6th, 1896.
NOTE-The reason the signature of Apostle Anton H. Lund does not appear in connection with those of his quorum is because he is absent, presiding over the European mission. He, however, will be given the opportunity of appending his signature when he returns home. {1896-April 6-Deseret Weekly, April 6, 1896, p. 533-534.} (3)
Endnotes:
1 - Notes from the Miscellaneous Record Book, 1886-1906: Selected diary notes from the journal books of Marriner Wood Merrill, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Ludlow, Daniel H. editor, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Publishing, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 4, Appendix 2: A Chronology of Church History, http://amzn.to/eG0DIp
3 - Clark, James R., Messages of the First Presidency (6 volumes)
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Apr 2, 1896; Thursday
-- Apr 2, 1896; Thursday
...The First Presidency and Apostles met in the Temple at 11 A.M. There were present: Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon, and [Joseph F.] Smith, and all the Apostles except Moses Thatcher, who was sick, and Elder Anthon H. Lund who was absent presiding over the European Mission. The Apostles, through President Lorenzo Snow, informed the First Presidency that each one of them was ready and willing to go on missions wherever it might be thought proper to send them, whether to Turkey, Russia, China, Japan, South America, or any where else. For some years past the labors of the Twelve had been chiefly among the various Stakes of Zion at home, attending to various Quarterly Conferences, etc., but they had agreed among themselves that perhaps they ought to be more in touch personally with the Foreign
Missions, and that the First Council of Seventies should be used as aids to the Apostles in opening up new fields of labor abroad. President Woodruff expressed his approval of these sentiments, but postponed further immediate consideration of this matter, in view of other business to be brought before the Council.
....President Lorenzo Snow said, he had failed to find anything in the Doctrine and Covenants touching on the question of salaries. He had traveled and labored upwards of 40 years without receiving a single cent from the Church, and had supported his family without taking advantage of any individual. He did not know for some time after Pres[iden]t. Taylor had made an allowance to the Apostles, that there was a sum credited to him. Latterly it had been necessary for him to draw on that credit for the support of his family. He would prefer to be entirely independent of the Church in that respect, and felt sorry to say that he was not. He believed however, that all the brethren would see the propriety and advantage of carrying out the suggestions that salaries should not be established. As to the other question, it was the right and duty of the First Presidency to have the control of everything pertaining to the Church, whether spiritual or temporal. As to the present system, he thought the Presidency had only to express their wishes in order to have them carried out. If that was so new, and the system worked satisfactorily to them, it would give them more time to attend to spiritual affairs. ... (1)
-- Apr 5, 1896
[Marriner Wood Merrill] The First Presidency and Apostles met, as per adjournment, at the President's Office. Af... The other brethren having withdrawn, the Presidency and Apostles consulted in reference to Elder Moses Thatcher. It was resolved that Presidents L[orenzo]. Snow and Elder B[righam]. Young [Jr.] be appointed to wait on brother Moses Thatcher, who was too sick to attend Conference, at his residence to present to him the address for his signature. Those brethren went to the residence of brother Thatcher, while the others went to the Tabernacle to attend the Conference. ...
At 1 o'clock P.M., Elders L[orenzo]. Snow and B[righam]. Young [Jr.] met the First Presidency at the President's Office and reported that after a pleasant conversation with Elder Moses Thatcher, they presented to him the address, offering to read it to him, but he preferred to read it himself. After doing so, he said there were some grave points embodied in it, and he would like time for further reflection before deciding whether he would sign it or not. They therefore left the document with him on his promise to send it to the President's Office by a safe messenger by half past one o'clock. The brethren expressed their opinion that, much to their regret, Elder Thatcher would return the document unsigned.
At 1:40 P.M., the following communication was received from brother Thatcher:
April 6, 1896. President Lorenzo Snow and Apostle Brigham Young. Dear Brethren:–
Having carefully read the document left with me for consideration, I herewith return it to you per promise.
There is much of its contents that I could conscientiously endorse by signing it, but there are other particulars which I cannot endorse without stultification.
If I was well I might view this most serious matter in a different light; or I might do so had I more time to consider it; but as it is, it seems that I must determine now, though I fully realize how sadly long illness has weakened me in every way. In the future the Lord may enable me to define my views and acts as running along those of honor, integrity and truth.
Now I can only humbly ask that you act according to the Holy Spirit's dictation as prompted by justice and brotherly love towards your fellow laborer in the cause of our Savior.
(Signed) Moses Thatcher.
The Presidency and Brothers Snow and Young went to the Tabernacle, and called together the Apostles to consider what should be done in reference to presenting the name of Moses Thatcher to the conference with the rest of the Twelve. It was decided not to present his name to be sustained as one of the Twelve Apostles.
At 8-30 in council with Presidency & Twelve & 7 Presidents of 70s at which we all signed the "To the Saints" and Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow with B[righam]. Young [Jr.] were deputed to obtain the signature of Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher. They spent the morning in their duty with Br[other]. M[oses]. T[hatcher]. Others at meeting.
Br[other]. Thatcher declined to sign the paper & in the afternoon it was read & accepted by vote of the vast audience.
On presentation of the authorities brother Moses Thatchers name was omitted.
President [George Q.] Cannon delivered two addresses in one was very vehement in his remarks as I had never before heard him.
At 10 a.m. Con[ference]. Assembled. I was there tho[ugh]' feeling poorly. Presidency & Twelve have produced a declaration of rights and wrongs excellent document which we all approved, on church discipline. This princip[le] has been in my mind for many weeks ur[g]ently so. I was spoken to privately by Pres[iden]t. [Wilford] Woodruff that he wanted me to carry it to M[oses]. Thathcer if he chooses to sign it. All seemed anxious that I should have a partner. I wanted Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow. he was proposed & we proceed to M[oses]. T[hatcher]. he was not up and soon met us and we presented the document about 11.30 a.m. He kept it by permission until 1.30 when he sent it to the office where we were with the Presidency, without his signature. He could not coincide with the whole doctrine but hoped when he got better in health he might see it. He has had the principles of it before him for years; beside it was signed by Pres[idency]. & 12 & 7 pres of 70 & pre[siding]. B[isho]ps. I was full of sorrow so were all the Brethren.
2 p.m. Document of declaration of Church discipline was read and accepted by the conference. unanimously Authorities presented all without Moses T[hatcher's] name being mentioned. Priesthood meeting in evening. I spoke yesterday in overflow & today in Tab[ernacle]. for a few minutes. Bro[ther] Moses is in a dangerous condition in health and spiritually poor man. God help him.
I attended Meeting in the Presidents Office at 8.30 AM to fa[r]ther discuss the address to the conferen[ce] and to be Publis[h]ed to the world and sighn the same, the first Presidency and 10 Ten of the Apostles with the first seven Presidents of Seventies the Patriarch and Bishop [William B.] Preston and councillors. all sighened the address &c Conference conveened at 10 AM (Pres[iden]t [Lorenzo] Snow and Apostle B[righam] Young [Jr.] were appointed to see Apostle [Moses] Thatcher on sighing the address. they were appointed at the Morning Meeting in the President Office). ... afternoon the authorities of the Church were presented and unaniously sustained all but apostle Thatcher who on the report of Pres[iden]t Snow and B[righam] Young refused to sighn the address above refered to and His Name was Not presented to the Conference.
[T]he Presidency Twelve Apostles, Council of Seventies, and Presiding Bishopric met at the Pres[ident's]. Office at 9 AM and after having a Manifesto, or declaration read, stating the duties of the leading Authorities to ask council of the Presidency before entering into any calling that would take them from their ecclesiastical labors either in Political or other callings. Also that there never has, or was not a disposition of the Church to dominate over the state. said Manifesto had been signed by the President [Wilford] Woodruff & Councelors Geo[rge] Q. Cannon and Jose[ph] F. Smith, also the Twelve Apostles, excepting Moses W. Thatcher, and Apostle [Anthon H.] Lund who is absent in charge of the European Mission. [April 7, 1896; Journal History; Minutes; Franklin D. Richards, Diary; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; J. Golden Kimball, Diary; Anthony W. Ivins, Diary]
A meeting of the First Presidency, Apostles, First Council of Seventies, Presiding Bishopric, Presidents of Stakes and Counselors, High Counselors, and Bishops and Counselors, was held in the Assembly Hall at 10 A.M. ....
President Lorenzo Snow gave some instruction in regard to Temple work, and requested the brethren present to keep the subject of the work in behalf of the dead prominently before the Latter Day Saints.
...Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow–Spoke of the importance of the people coming to labor in the Temple & beneficial effects thereof to them their neighbors here as well as to those for whom the work is performed. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Marriner Wood Merrill, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
...The First Presidency and Apostles met in the Temple at 11 A.M. There were present: Presidents [Wilford] Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon, and [Joseph F.] Smith, and all the Apostles except Moses Thatcher, who was sick, and Elder Anthon H. Lund who was absent presiding over the European Mission. The Apostles, through President Lorenzo Snow, informed the First Presidency that each one of them was ready and willing to go on missions wherever it might be thought proper to send them, whether to Turkey, Russia, China, Japan, South America, or any where else. For some years past the labors of the Twelve had been chiefly among the various Stakes of Zion at home, attending to various Quarterly Conferences, etc., but they had agreed among themselves that perhaps they ought to be more in touch personally with the Foreign
Missions, and that the First Council of Seventies should be used as aids to the Apostles in opening up new fields of labor abroad. President Woodruff expressed his approval of these sentiments, but postponed further immediate consideration of this matter, in view of other business to be brought before the Council.
....President Lorenzo Snow said, he had failed to find anything in the Doctrine and Covenants touching on the question of salaries. He had traveled and labored upwards of 40 years without receiving a single cent from the Church, and had supported his family without taking advantage of any individual. He did not know for some time after Pres[iden]t. Taylor had made an allowance to the Apostles, that there was a sum credited to him. Latterly it had been necessary for him to draw on that credit for the support of his family. He would prefer to be entirely independent of the Church in that respect, and felt sorry to say that he was not. He believed however, that all the brethren would see the propriety and advantage of carrying out the suggestions that salaries should not be established. As to the other question, it was the right and duty of the First Presidency to have the control of everything pertaining to the Church, whether spiritual or temporal. As to the present system, he thought the Presidency had only to express their wishes in order to have them carried out. If that was so new, and the system worked satisfactorily to them, it would give them more time to attend to spiritual affairs. ... (1)
-- Apr 5, 1896
[Marriner Wood Merrill] The First Presidency and Apostles met, as per adjournment, at the President's Office. Af... The other brethren having withdrawn, the Presidency and Apostles consulted in reference to Elder Moses Thatcher. It was resolved that Presidents L[orenzo]. Snow and Elder B[righam]. Young [Jr.] be appointed to wait on brother Moses Thatcher, who was too sick to attend Conference, at his residence to present to him the address for his signature. Those brethren went to the residence of brother Thatcher, while the others went to the Tabernacle to attend the Conference. ...
At 1 o'clock P.M., Elders L[orenzo]. Snow and B[righam]. Young [Jr.] met the First Presidency at the President's Office and reported that after a pleasant conversation with Elder Moses Thatcher, they presented to him the address, offering to read it to him, but he preferred to read it himself. After doing so, he said there were some grave points embodied in it, and he would like time for further reflection before deciding whether he would sign it or not. They therefore left the document with him on his promise to send it to the President's Office by a safe messenger by half past one o'clock. The brethren expressed their opinion that, much to their regret, Elder Thatcher would return the document unsigned.
At 1:40 P.M., the following communication was received from brother Thatcher:
April 6, 1896. President Lorenzo Snow and Apostle Brigham Young. Dear Brethren:–
Having carefully read the document left with me for consideration, I herewith return it to you per promise.
There is much of its contents that I could conscientiously endorse by signing it, but there are other particulars which I cannot endorse without stultification.
If I was well I might view this most serious matter in a different light; or I might do so had I more time to consider it; but as it is, it seems that I must determine now, though I fully realize how sadly long illness has weakened me in every way. In the future the Lord may enable me to define my views and acts as running along those of honor, integrity and truth.
Now I can only humbly ask that you act according to the Holy Spirit's dictation as prompted by justice and brotherly love towards your fellow laborer in the cause of our Savior.
(Signed) Moses Thatcher.
The Presidency and Brothers Snow and Young went to the Tabernacle, and called together the Apostles to consider what should be done in reference to presenting the name of Moses Thatcher to the conference with the rest of the Twelve. It was decided not to present his name to be sustained as one of the Twelve Apostles.
At 8-30 in council with Presidency & Twelve & 7 Presidents of 70s at which we all signed the "To the Saints" and Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow with B[righam]. Young [Jr.] were deputed to obtain the signature of Bro[ther]. Moses Thatcher. They spent the morning in their duty with Br[other]. M[oses]. T[hatcher]. Others at meeting.
Br[other]. Thatcher declined to sign the paper & in the afternoon it was read & accepted by vote of the vast audience.
On presentation of the authorities brother Moses Thatchers name was omitted.
President [George Q.] Cannon delivered two addresses in one was very vehement in his remarks as I had never before heard him.
At 10 a.m. Con[ference]. Assembled. I was there tho[ugh]' feeling poorly. Presidency & Twelve have produced a declaration of rights and wrongs excellent document which we all approved, on church discipline. This princip[le] has been in my mind for many weeks ur[g]ently so. I was spoken to privately by Pres[iden]t. [Wilford] Woodruff that he wanted me to carry it to M[oses]. Thathcer if he chooses to sign it. All seemed anxious that I should have a partner. I wanted Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow. he was proposed & we proceed to M[oses]. T[hatcher]. he was not up and soon met us and we presented the document about 11.30 a.m. He kept it by permission until 1.30 when he sent it to the office where we were with the Presidency, without his signature. He could not coincide with the whole doctrine but hoped when he got better in health he might see it. He has had the principles of it before him for years; beside it was signed by Pres[idency]. & 12 & 7 pres of 70 & pre[siding]. B[isho]ps. I was full of sorrow so were all the Brethren.
2 p.m. Document of declaration of Church discipline was read and accepted by the conference. unanimously Authorities presented all without Moses T[hatcher's] name being mentioned. Priesthood meeting in evening. I spoke yesterday in overflow & today in Tab[ernacle]. for a few minutes. Bro[ther] Moses is in a dangerous condition in health and spiritually poor man. God help him.
I attended Meeting in the Presidents Office at 8.30 AM to fa[r]ther discuss the address to the conferen[ce] and to be Publis[h]ed to the world and sighn the same, the first Presidency and 10 Ten of the Apostles with the first seven Presidents of Seventies the Patriarch and Bishop [William B.] Preston and councillors. all sighened the address &c Conference conveened at 10 AM (Pres[iden]t [Lorenzo] Snow and Apostle B[righam] Young [Jr.] were appointed to see Apostle [Moses] Thatcher on sighing the address. they were appointed at the Morning Meeting in the President Office). ... afternoon the authorities of the Church were presented and unaniously sustained all but apostle Thatcher who on the report of Pres[iden]t Snow and B[righam] Young refused to sighn the address above refered to and His Name was Not presented to the Conference.
[T]he Presidency Twelve Apostles, Council of Seventies, and Presiding Bishopric met at the Pres[ident's]. Office at 9 AM and after having a Manifesto, or declaration read, stating the duties of the leading Authorities to ask council of the Presidency before entering into any calling that would take them from their ecclesiastical labors either in Political or other callings. Also that there never has, or was not a disposition of the Church to dominate over the state. said Manifesto had been signed by the President [Wilford] Woodruff & Councelors Geo[rge] Q. Cannon and Jose[ph] F. Smith, also the Twelve Apostles, excepting Moses W. Thatcher, and Apostle [Anthon H.] Lund who is absent in charge of the European Mission. [April 7, 1896; Journal History; Minutes; Franklin D. Richards, Diary; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; J. Golden Kimball, Diary; Anthony W. Ivins, Diary]
A meeting of the First Presidency, Apostles, First Council of Seventies, Presiding Bishopric, Presidents of Stakes and Counselors, High Counselors, and Bishops and Counselors, was held in the Assembly Hall at 10 A.M. ....
President Lorenzo Snow gave some instruction in regard to Temple work, and requested the brethren present to keep the subject of the work in behalf of the dead prominently before the Latter Day Saints.
...Pres[iden]t. L[orenzo]. Snow–Spoke of the importance of the people coming to labor in the Temple & beneficial effects thereof to them their neighbors here as well as to those for whom the work is performed. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
2 - Marriner Wood Merrill, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Apr 1, 1896; Wednesday
-- Apr 1, 1896; Wednesday
... Lorenzo Snow stated that he had really wondered whether the Lord was pleased with the Apostles in remaining at home so much of their time and simply visiting among the saints. Felt that this
work was a good one and absolutely necessary. It had been our habit in the past for two Apostles to go together to the different Stake Conferences. There are thousands who have never heard the voice of an Apostle, and he had thought that we should make a change. He felt that we could spare some of the Apostles to go and open up missions to the different nations of the earth, and that there was no necessity for two apostles to visit the stake conferences. One of the Apostles could go and take a High Priest or some leading brother with him. Said if he were a young man he thought that he would go to presidency and offer to open up the mission to Japan. ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been quite necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today. ...
Pres[iden]t. Snow said that the principle was just as true today as it ever was, and bore his testimony to the effect that it will again be practiced by this people.
...Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow stated that it was his belief that the Lord would soon arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would assist us in softening the hearts of officials. He said he felt to bless the brethren in keeping their covenants with families and living with them. ... (1)
Lorenzo Snow[:] ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow stated that it was his belief that the Lord would so arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would so arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would assist us in softening the hearts of officials. He said he felt to bless the brethren in keeping their covenants with their families and living with them. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Excerpt from the Minutes of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
2 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
... Lorenzo Snow stated that he had really wondered whether the Lord was pleased with the Apostles in remaining at home so much of their time and simply visiting among the saints. Felt that this
work was a good one and absolutely necessary. It had been our habit in the past for two Apostles to go together to the different Stake Conferences. There are thousands who have never heard the voice of an Apostle, and he had thought that we should make a change. He felt that we could spare some of the Apostles to go and open up missions to the different nations of the earth, and that there was no necessity for two apostles to visit the stake conferences. One of the Apostles could go and take a High Priest or some leading brother with him. Said if he were a young man he thought that he would go to presidency and offer to open up the mission to Japan. ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been quite necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today. ...
Pres[iden]t. Snow said that the principle was just as true today as it ever was, and bore his testimony to the effect that it will again be practiced by this people.
...Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow stated that it was his belief that the Lord would soon arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would assist us in softening the hearts of officials. He said he felt to bless the brethren in keeping their covenants with families and living with them. ... (1)
Lorenzo Snow[:] ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow stated that it was his belief that the Lord would so arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would so arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would assist us in softening the hearts of officials. He said he felt to bless the brethren in keeping their covenants with their families and living with them. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Excerpt from the Minutes of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
2 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Apr 1, 1896
-- Apr 1, 1896
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] Lorenzo Snow ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today ...
(1)
-- Wednesday, Apr 1, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] ... Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill and Abraham H. Cannon met at the Temple.
Brigham Young spoke on the propriety of the Apostles knowing more of the various Missions in the United States. I endorse him. F. D. Richards said he knew nothing of the business of the missions only as to sending out the Elders. F. M. Lyman Endorsed B. Youngs idea and enlarged upon it. John W. Taylor also expressed much joy at the prospect of such an effort. Heber J. Grant was also pleased with it. Lorenzo Snow Felt that missionary work must be done everywhere. F. D. Richards Said in the past the people of the world had been frozen up against us but were now thawing out. Lets go to work and search for souls.
M. W. Merrill. Told of his ordination to the Priesthood. He predicted we would practice plural marriage again and our Nation endorse.
Lorenzo Snow. Told of letters written by a lady to England from Nauvoo, Ill. about Celestial Marriage.
He said that Joseph Smith the Prophet taught him the Doctrine of plural marriage April 15, 1843.
Abraham H. Cannon said he fully beleived in the devinity of plural marriage and during all of the troubles of the past had lived in turns with his wives.
Lorenzo Snow. Felt it would be wise to see the judges and soften their feeling about pluralists. John Henry Smith said he would do his best.
F. M. Lyman said he was willing any day to go to any part of the word. All present voted they were ready to do the same.
Some conversation was had in regard to a visit to Bro. Moses Thatcher but we failed to agree. We adjourned until tomorrow at 11 a.m. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] Lorenzo Snow ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today ...
(1)
-- Wednesday, Apr 1, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] ... Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill and Abraham H. Cannon met at the Temple.
Brigham Young spoke on the propriety of the Apostles knowing more of the various Missions in the United States. I endorse him. F. D. Richards said he knew nothing of the business of the missions only as to sending out the Elders. F. M. Lyman Endorsed B. Youngs idea and enlarged upon it. John W. Taylor also expressed much joy at the prospect of such an effort. Heber J. Grant was also pleased with it. Lorenzo Snow Felt that missionary work must be done everywhere. F. D. Richards Said in the past the people of the world had been frozen up against us but were now thawing out. Lets go to work and search for souls.
M. W. Merrill. Told of his ordination to the Priesthood. He predicted we would practice plural marriage again and our Nation endorse.
Lorenzo Snow. Told of letters written by a lady to England from Nauvoo, Ill. about Celestial Marriage.
He said that Joseph Smith the Prophet taught him the Doctrine of plural marriage April 15, 1843.
Abraham H. Cannon said he fully beleived in the devinity of plural marriage and during all of the troubles of the past had lived in turns with his wives.
Lorenzo Snow. Felt it would be wise to see the judges and soften their feeling about pluralists. John Henry Smith said he would do his best.
F. M. Lyman said he was willing any day to go to any part of the word. All present voted they were ready to do the same.
Some conversation was had in regard to a visit to Bro. Moses Thatcher but we failed to agree. We adjourned until tomorrow at 11 a.m. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
2 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Mar 31, 1896; Tuesday
-- Mar 31, 1896; Tuesday
...[Lorenzo Snow] wanted to know what success had attended the efforts of Bro[ther]s [Franklin D.] Richards and [Heber J.] Grant in laboring with Elder Moses Thatcher. Bro[ther] Richards explained, as so also did I, that we were not aware that we had been appointed to talk with Bro[ther] Moses, but that there had simply been some informal remarks made about the matter and that it would be well for us to visit him. Brigham Young, Lorenzo Young, Myself, Francis M. Lyman and Franklin D. Richards all expressed ourselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses' condition. These brethren not only felt that Bro[ther] Moses' physical condition was very serious indeed, but they also felt that he was in a very dangerous position spiritually. After the remarks of the brethren
our meeting adjourned until 2 pm. (1)
-- Mar 31, 1896
Pres[iden]ts. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and Jos[eph]. F. Smith went to Ogden [Utah] on business connected with the Pioneer Power Company. Pres[iden]t. [Wilford] Woodruff appropriated $50 in favor of sister Davis of Malad [Idaho].
Meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in the Temple. Opening prayer by Bro[ther]. Lorenzo Snow.
Bro[ther]. Lorenzo Snow expressed his pleasure at being able to meet with his brethren under such favorable circumstances. Felt to say, God bless you, my brethren. Stated ... it was our duty to study carefully our natures and dispositions and learn to control ourselves that we should know each and every desire of our heart, and strive to have our desires always for the right ... We should not allow pride and a desire to please people and get their good will to be a ruling motive with us. Should be satisfied in our own spirits that what we do is right without regard to the praise or condemnation fo men ... When we talk we should not try to talk to please the people. Never mind what the people think but speak as you are inspired to so to do. The ancient prophets had to do many things which brought them into disgrace, and we may have to do the same, and our reputations in the eyes of men may be destroyed. But we have got to sacrifice ourselves if necessary for the advancement of God's kingdom. I say, brethren, God will bless you, provided you are true and faithful. Said that we should desire to live until the Lord Jesus came, and that he knew that it was possible that the brethren could so live as to preserve their bodies and renew them sufficiently to be enabled to live until the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Said that the brethren by care and faith were entitled to live and that there was no necessity for them to have their bodies buried in the ground. Stated that he did not know that it was his privilege, because of his advanced age, to have his life preserved until the coming of the Savior. It was the design of the Gospel to overcome death, and to enable men who are faithful to so live until they are translated ... Did not want the brethren to worry about what people may say to them, but to do what is right under all circumstances, and they will come off conquerers. Stated this is true and as sure as we live.
.... Lorenzo Snow stated that he had really wondered whether the Lord was pleased with the Apostles in remaining at home so much of their time and simply visiting among the saints. Felt that this work was a good one and absolutely necessary. It had been our habit in the past for two Apostles to go together to the different Stake Conferences. There are thousands who have never heard the voice of an Apostle, and he had thought that we should make a change. He felt that we could spare some of the Apostles to go and open up missions to the different nations of the earth, and that there was no necessity for two apostles to visit the stake conferences. One of the Apostles could go and take a High Priest or some leading brother with him. Said if he were a young man he thought that he would go to presidency and offer to open up the mission to Japan. ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been quite necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today ... Felt that the influence of the Apostles was very great, and that we were great before we came to this earth. Felt sure that we held high offices before we came here ... Referred to the prayer of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to his Father, asking the Father to glorify him with that same glory which he had before he came to this world, and felt that we should pray the same as the Savior had done ... It was his belief that President Brigham Young would be living today, if the Prophet Joseph Smith had not asked to have him come and assist him in his labors ...
Pres[iden]t. [Lorenzo] Snow stated that he was in England with Bro[ther]. [Parley P.] Pratt when reports came from Nauvoo [Illinois] to the effect that the doctrine of plural marriage was being taught. Pres[iden]t. Snow said that the principle was just as true today as it ever was, and bore his testimony to the effect that it will again be practiced by this people. ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow stated that it was his belief that the Lord would soon arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would assist us in softening the hearts of officials. He said he felt to bless the brethren in keeping their covenants with families and living with them. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
2 - Journal History; Minutes; Charles W. Penrose, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
...[Lorenzo Snow] wanted to know what success had attended the efforts of Bro[ther]s [Franklin D.] Richards and [Heber J.] Grant in laboring with Elder Moses Thatcher. Bro[ther] Richards explained, as so also did I, that we were not aware that we had been appointed to talk with Bro[ther] Moses, but that there had simply been some informal remarks made about the matter and that it would be well for us to visit him. Brigham Young, Lorenzo Young, Myself, Francis M. Lyman and Franklin D. Richards all expressed ourselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses' condition. These brethren not only felt that Bro[ther] Moses' physical condition was very serious indeed, but they also felt that he was in a very dangerous position spiritually. After the remarks of the brethren
our meeting adjourned until 2 pm. (1)
-- Mar 31, 1896
Pres[iden]ts. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon and Jos[eph]. F. Smith went to Ogden [Utah] on business connected with the Pioneer Power Company. Pres[iden]t. [Wilford] Woodruff appropriated $50 in favor of sister Davis of Malad [Idaho].
Meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in the Temple. Opening prayer by Bro[ther]. Lorenzo Snow.
Bro[ther]. Lorenzo Snow expressed his pleasure at being able to meet with his brethren under such favorable circumstances. Felt to say, God bless you, my brethren. Stated ... it was our duty to study carefully our natures and dispositions and learn to control ourselves that we should know each and every desire of our heart, and strive to have our desires always for the right ... We should not allow pride and a desire to please people and get their good will to be a ruling motive with us. Should be satisfied in our own spirits that what we do is right without regard to the praise or condemnation fo men ... When we talk we should not try to talk to please the people. Never mind what the people think but speak as you are inspired to so to do. The ancient prophets had to do many things which brought them into disgrace, and we may have to do the same, and our reputations in the eyes of men may be destroyed. But we have got to sacrifice ourselves if necessary for the advancement of God's kingdom. I say, brethren, God will bless you, provided you are true and faithful. Said that we should desire to live until the Lord Jesus came, and that he knew that it was possible that the brethren could so live as to preserve their bodies and renew them sufficiently to be enabled to live until the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Said that the brethren by care and faith were entitled to live and that there was no necessity for them to have their bodies buried in the ground. Stated that he did not know that it was his privilege, because of his advanced age, to have his life preserved until the coming of the Savior. It was the design of the Gospel to overcome death, and to enable men who are faithful to so live until they are translated ... Did not want the brethren to worry about what people may say to them, but to do what is right under all circumstances, and they will come off conquerers. Stated this is true and as sure as we live.
.... Lorenzo Snow stated that he had really wondered whether the Lord was pleased with the Apostles in remaining at home so much of their time and simply visiting among the saints. Felt that this work was a good one and absolutely necessary. It had been our habit in the past for two Apostles to go together to the different Stake Conferences. There are thousands who have never heard the voice of an Apostle, and he had thought that we should make a change. He felt that we could spare some of the Apostles to go and open up missions to the different nations of the earth, and that there was no necessity for two apostles to visit the stake conferences. One of the Apostles could go and take a High Priest or some leading brother with him. Said if he were a young man he thought that he would go to presidency and offer to open up the mission to Japan. ... Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been quite necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today ... Felt that the influence of the Apostles was very great, and that we were great before we came to this earth. Felt sure that we held high offices before we came here ... Referred to the prayer of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to his Father, asking the Father to glorify him with that same glory which he had before he came to this world, and felt that we should pray the same as the Savior had done ... It was his belief that President Brigham Young would be living today, if the Prophet Joseph Smith had not asked to have him come and assist him in his labors ...
Pres[iden]t. [Lorenzo] Snow stated that he was in England with Bro[ther]. [Parley P.] Pratt when reports came from Nauvoo [Illinois] to the effect that the doctrine of plural marriage was being taught. Pres[iden]t. Snow said that the principle was just as true today as it ever was, and bore his testimony to the effect that it will again be practiced by this people. ...
Pres[iden]t. Lorenzo Snow stated that it was his belief that the Lord would soon arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would assist us in softening the hearts of officials. He said he felt to bless the brethren in keeping their covenants with families and living with them. ... (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Heber J. Grant, Diary
2 - Journal History; Minutes; Charles W. Penrose, Diary
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Lorenzo Snow, Feb 14, 1896
-- Feb 14, 1896
Apostle Brigham Young Jr. writes in his journal: "Our conversation during the entire day was of the most interesting character. He [Heber J. Grant] said I & Lyman & J[ohn] H[enry] S[mith] have decided in our own minds that Jos[eph] F. S[smith] should be placed ahead of you in the Quorum. He thinks that, tho' a man may be ordained an apostle he takes rank when he comes into the Quorum" Brigham Jr. had been secretly ordained an apostle by his father long before he became a member of the Quorum of Apostles. This re-ordering makes Joseph F. Smith president of the church upon the death of Lorenzo Snow instead of Brigham Young Jr. (1)
-- Mar 13, 1896
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] Met brother Francis M. Lyman and he asked me if I had seen the letter from Brother Brigham H Roberts, and I answered no, and was surprised and delighted to learn that Bro. Roberts had decided to bow to the wishes of the brethren. .... Called at the Temple and told Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow and he was delighted ... (2)
-- Mar 31, 1896
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] [Pre-conference quorum meeting in temple.] Lorenzo Snow ... [Lorenzo Snow] wanted to know what success had attended the efforts of Bro[ther]s Richards and Grant in favoring with Elder Moses Thatcher. Bro[ther] Richards explained, as so also did I, that we were not aware that we had been appointed to talk with Bro[ther] Moses, but that there had simply been some informal remarks made about the matter and that it would be well for us to visit him. Brigham Young, Lorenzo Young, Myself, Francis M. Lyman and Franklin D. Richards all expressed ourselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses' condition. These brethren not only felt that Bro[ther] Moses' physical condition was very serious indeed, but they also felt that he was in a very dangerous position spiritually. After the remarks of the brethren our meeting adjourned until 2 pm.
(2)
-- Tuesday, Mar 31, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill and Abraham H. Cannon met in Counsel at the Temple. Lorenzo Snow. The Lord will bless you all. You will be required to do many things that will make you unpopular with both saint and sinner. Franklin D. Richards. Said let us seek to know Christ.
Brigham Young. Said I have been sorely tried for 48 hours but Bro. L. Snows word had comforted him. (3)
Endnotes:
1 - Advent Adam website (defunct) - based on http://amzn.to/originsofpower
2 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
3 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Apostle Brigham Young Jr. writes in his journal: "Our conversation during the entire day was of the most interesting character. He [Heber J. Grant] said I & Lyman & J[ohn] H[enry] S[mith] have decided in our own minds that Jos[eph] F. S[smith] should be placed ahead of you in the Quorum. He thinks that, tho' a man may be ordained an apostle he takes rank when he comes into the Quorum" Brigham Jr. had been secretly ordained an apostle by his father long before he became a member of the Quorum of Apostles. This re-ordering makes Joseph F. Smith president of the church upon the death of Lorenzo Snow instead of Brigham Young Jr. (1)
-- Mar 13, 1896
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] Met brother Francis M. Lyman and he asked me if I had seen the letter from Brother Brigham H Roberts, and I answered no, and was surprised and delighted to learn that Bro. Roberts had decided to bow to the wishes of the brethren. .... Called at the Temple and told Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow and he was delighted ... (2)
-- Mar 31, 1896
[Apostle Heber J. Grant Diary] [Pre-conference quorum meeting in temple.] Lorenzo Snow ... [Lorenzo Snow] wanted to know what success had attended the efforts of Bro[ther]s Richards and Grant in favoring with Elder Moses Thatcher. Bro[ther] Richards explained, as so also did I, that we were not aware that we had been appointed to talk with Bro[ther] Moses, but that there had simply been some informal remarks made about the matter and that it would be well for us to visit him. Brigham Young, Lorenzo Young, Myself, Francis M. Lyman and Franklin D. Richards all expressed ourselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses' condition. These brethren not only felt that Bro[ther] Moses' physical condition was very serious indeed, but they also felt that he was in a very dangerous position spiritually. After the remarks of the brethren our meeting adjourned until 2 pm.
(2)
-- Tuesday, Mar 31, 1896
[Apostle John Henry Smith Diary] Salt Lake City
Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, Geo. Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, M. W. Merrill and Abraham H. Cannon met in Counsel at the Temple. Lorenzo Snow. The Lord will bless you all. You will be required to do many things that will make you unpopular with both saint and sinner. Franklin D. Richards. Said let us seek to know Christ.
Brigham Young. Said I have been sorely tried for 48 hours but Bro. L. Snows word had comforted him. (3)
Endnotes:
1 - Advent Adam website (defunct) - based on http://amzn.to/originsofpower
2 - Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies
3 - Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LDS Church History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LDS-church-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)