-- Nov 25, 1896
A Russian named Hatchador Hardirosian called on the First Presidency today, with a letter from S. H. Abkerian, M.D., of 1634 Lexington Ave., New York City. He was able to converse in Armenian and Turkish, as well as in Russian. He claimed to belong to a religious society in the Southern dominions of the Russian Empire, who believed in Jesus Christ, but not in the Greek Church, and who had made his way to New York, and thence to S[alt]. L[ake]. City for the purpose of studying the Mormon religion. He supplied his necessities by working at shoe making, and professed to be led by the Spirit to seek out the Mormons. Elder F[erdinand]. F. Hintze was communicated with, and the man was put in his charge, being able to converse with him in Turkish.
Bro[ther] George Reynolds explained to me in detail regarding the dedicating of the Bullion Beck Mining Stock, and Moses Thatcher rebelling against the plan. That the first trouble commenced when Moses Thatcher preached in Cache Co[unty]. [Utah] especially about Joseph Smith being resurrected, and being raised up like as Moses to lead us out of bondage &c. The brethren of the Authorities called him to question but he never felt right about it. [November 26, 1896; Journal History; Franklin D. Richards, Diary; Brigham Young Jr., Diary; J. Golden Kimball, Diary]
Thanksgiving Day. A special meeting was held at the office of the First Presidency. There were present: Presidents W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, J[oseph]. F. Smith, L[orenzo]. Snow, Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], S[eymour]. B. Young, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, J[ohn]. W. Taylor, J. G[olden]. Kimball, C[harles]. W. Penrose, and R[obert]. S. Campbell. The subject of the indisposition of many of the Latter Day Saints to be guided by the authorities of the Church in matters not regarded as spiritual was considered. The following which Moses Thatcher appeared to have, particularly in politics, was also dwelt upon, and all present took part in the conversation. The course pursued by Moses Thatcher in reference to Pres[iden]t. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon was also ventilated.
President Woodruff stated that ever since the death of President John Taylor Brother Moses Thatcher had been influenced by an apostate spirit. It took Brother Thatcher about a week to confess Brother Cannon's sins for him, without making any confession whatever of his own. He had indulged that spirit more or less ever since. During those trying times he was closely associated with President Cannon and he could testify that the spirit which animated Brother Cannon was a righteous and forgiving spirit, and the spirit which animated Brother Thatcher was of the evil one. Brother Thatcher undertook to control the Apostles and run things generally, and was able for a while to influence two or three of the Twelve. Brother Thatcher had come to him when Brother Cannon was in prison and declared he was going to sue Brother Cannon before the law. Such an expression from an Apostle struck him (Brother Woodruff) like a clap of thunder. But it showed the spirit Brother Thatcher was of. He told Brother Thatcher that if he carried out his threat, it would be the worst pill he ever took in his life. The unfortunate part of it was that Brother Thatcher never repented of it.
President Snow said what President Woodruff had stated was true, and the brethren of the Twelve understood that President Woodruff had sounded the key note of Brother Thatcher's apostasy. He believed firmly that all the trouble that had come on Brother Thatcher had arisen in consequence of his spirit and conduct towards Brother Cannon. President Snow said he thought the course pursued by Brother Thatcher in the Bullion-Beck business ought to be fully exposed.
President Woodruff called attention to the fact that when Brother Cannon came out of prison, and the matter between Brother Thatcher and him was investigated, it was found that instead of Brother Cannon having anything in his possession belonging to Brother Thatcher, the latter owed Brother Cannon about $100.
President Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon said it was due to him that the idea should be corrected that there was any personal difficulty between himself and Brother Thatcher. He had nothing personally against him, and he desired the brethren present to understand this, and as far as they could, to inform others, that he might not be held in a false position.
Elder Heber J. Grant confessed that he at one time had been led by Brother Thatcher into a wrong spirit, and that Elder Erastus Snow, who at first seemed to favor Brother Thatcher's views, emphatically warned Moses Thatcher and himself (Brother Grant) that unless they repented the spirit they were of would lead them away from the quorum of the Apostles. From that very time, Brother Grant said, he had avoided being led by the spirit that was in Brother Thatcher, who he had learned to love and in whom he had placed great confidence. But, Brother Grant said, Brother Thatcher was a covenant breaker. He had solemnly agreed that 60% of the means he had invested in the Bullion- Beck Company should be dedicated to the Lord, for the use of the church under direction of the President, and he demanded that stock after the death of President Taylor, and it was through that the heirs of President Taylor had also demanded their dedicated stock, and then John Beck had demanded his. Brother Thatcher had also covenanted with the other Apostles to conform to the Word of Wisdom, but he had made a practice of breaking it openly.
Brother J. Golden Kimball stated that in a conversation with Brother Thatcher after he had declined to sign the declaration of principles, he complained that he had only had a little over an hour to consider it. To this Brother Kimball answered that the authorities of the Church had no desire to crowd him, and spoke of the kindly feeling and charity they had exhibited, whereupon Brother Thatcher became much excited, and on Brother Kimball's stating that he was now in closer touch with the First Presidency, and had a better understanding of their spirit and purpose than in times past, Brother Thatcher became very angry, and exclaimed: "I want to say to you Golden Kimball, you were furnished a blanket by the authorities of the Church to blanket your conscience, when you signed that document. For you know they have used Church influence". Brother Kimball added that some time ago his friends in Cache Valley [Utah] put his name forward as a candidate for the Legislature, but that his candidacy was defeated through Brother Thatcher's telling the leaders of the party in that county that the authorities of the Church did not want him to go to the Legislature, and he (Brother Kimball) had since ascertained that Brother Thatcher had used their name to defeat him without their authority or knowledge.
The subject of Brother Thatcher's candidacy for the United States Senatorship was fully considered, and it was unanimously decided that it would be a calamity to have Brother Thatcher elected to that position upon the platform which he had put forth, in opposition to the Church and its discipline, and as an advocate and representative of that opposition.
President Woodruff said he knew that if the people would receive it the mind of the Lord was that we should be represented in the Senate of the United States by Brother George Q. Cannon. If this could not be effected under present political conditions, it would at any rate be wrong to support a man for that position who while professing membership in the church, was yet in hostility to its established discipline.
The brethren present were all favorable to the idea of President Cannon's representing Utah in the Upper House of Congress, but were of the opinion that this could not be effected without a positive announcement such as the Presidency did not feel inclined to make.
It was decided that every proper effort should be made to have the brethren who were elected to the Legislature to go there un pledged to any individual, and to counteract the influence that had been used by the emissaries of Moses Thatcher to bind the members of the Legislature to his support.
The following brethren were appointed to see that this was done: namely, F[ranklin]. S. Richards, C[harles]. W. Penrose, J. G[olden]. Kimball, John Henry Smith and H[eber]. J. Grant.
At 9.30 met in Council 3 presidents, L[orenzo] Snow, F[ranklin]. D. R[ichards]. B[righam]. Y[oung]. [Jr.] J[ohn]. H[enry]. S[mith]. H[eber]. J. G[rant]. J[ohn]. W. T[aylor]. J. G[olden]. Kimball, F[ranklin]. S. Richards, C[harles]. W. Penrose, Robert S. Campbell. (G[eorge]. F. Gibbs reporter[)] Pres[iden]t. W[ilford]. W[oodruff]. stated that Pres[iden]t [George Q.] Cannon will be absent for a while & he wished us to consider some important matters—it being represented that Moses Thatcher would try hard to get elected Senator. It appearing impracticable to run G[eorge]. Q. C[annon]. or any other Churchman of Senator it seemed favorable to give our support to Judge P. H. Henderson. We must prevent M[oses]. T[hatcher]. election if possible. Senator F[rank] J Cannon, his wife, his mother & their 2 children left for Washington DC.
Meeting in office at 9.30. Presidency Pres[ident] [Lorenzo] Snow & [Franklin D.] Richards Jno [John] H[enry]. S[mith]. H[eber]. J. G[rant]. of Twelve and several others present. fully decided in equity we should morally support a gentile as Senator to U.S. Much other business done. Cold weather, I feel it severely. I spoke in the meeting advising that we wait upon the Lord and seek His blessing and special aid for we are not fully satisfied just what we can do for apparently we are powerless in this wild political turmoil.
Was notified to be at the Presidents at 9.30 a.m. When I arrived there found, Pres[ident]. Wilford Woodruff, [George Q.] Cannon and [Joseph F.] Smith. Pres[ident]. Lorenzo Snow, Apostle [Franklin D.] Richards, Brigham Young [Jr.], John Henry Smith, Heber J. Grant, and John W Taylor. Also F[ranklin] S Richards, Robert Campbell.
The question to be considered was as to the advisability of opposing Moses Thatchers election as a Senator to Congress. He was being sustained by many enemies to the Church, and sustained because he was not in harmony with the Pres[idency] of the Church and the Twelve Apostles. B. H. Roberts was just as much of an idol of the Democratic party as Moses Thatcher, and more so. but as soon as he harmonized with his brethren and accepted the rule of discipline, the Democratic party had no further use for him. When I speak of the Democratic party in these cases I speak of men that are enemies to the Church of Jesus Christ. Moses Thatcher appealed to Young Utah to aid him in vindicating the cause for which he had contended, and to assist him in keeping the chains from being forged upon the people of this state.
The L[atter] D[ay] Saints can sustain and assist an honest Gentile but cannot reward a man that was once an Apostle, and is now an enemy to the Brethren of the Authorities, and I claim also the Church, in being elected to so high an office. Yet it has no happened that such a Legislators, which some few exceptions cannot be reached because they are so loyal to O[rlando]. W. Powers, Jo[s]e[ph] Rawlins, and Moses Thatcher, all avowed enemies to the C[hurh] of J[esus]. C[hrist]. of L[atter]. D[ay]. S[aints]. Robert Sloan was just elected as chairman of the Utah State Democratic Committee. A meaner, more contemptable, gambler, whore monger and dishonest scoundrel of a Mormon parentage could not be found in all Zion. Yet the church must stand still and witness such ungodly sights. This council of men were together until 3 P.M. Much plain talk was indulged in. It was explained the intense feeling that has been worked up against Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon. He was dumbfounded and wept. Moses Thatcher had waged a war against Bro[ther] Cannon for many years, and his stories were believed by many. I am fully convinced that such stories are false, and that Geo[rge]. Q. will be vindicated and Moses Thatcher will apostatize. I learned many things that it is not wise for me to write, but they will be written, and men that do others injury and hurt, will in this Church, be removed from their places. Apostles John Henry Smith, Heber J. Grant, and C[harles]. W. Penrose, F[ranklin]. S. Richards and myself were appointed to act as a committee in adopting some plan to defeat Moses Thatchers election, and do so without the Church dominating the State. (1)
-- Nov 26, 1896; Thursday
Thanksgiving Day. A special meeting was held at the office of the First Presidency. There were present: Presidents W[ilford]. Woodruff, G[eorge]. Q. Cannon, J[oseph]. F. Smith, L[orenzo]. Snow, Elders F[ranklin]. D. Richards, B[righam]. Young [Jr.], S[eymour]. B. Young, J[ohn]. H[enry]. Smith, H[eber]. J. Grant, J[ohn]. W. Taylor, J. G[olden]. Kimball, C[harles]. W. Penrose, and R[obert]. S. Campbell. The subject of the indisposition of many of the Latter Day Saints to be guided by the authorities of the Church in matters not regarded as spiritual was considered. The following which Moses Thatcher appeared to have, particularly in politics, was also dwelt upon, and all present took part in the conversation. The course pursued by Moses Thatcher in reference to Pres[iden]t. Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon was also ventilated.
President Woodruff stated that ever since the death of President John Taylor Brother Moses Thatcher had been influenced by an apostate spirit. It took Brother Thatcher about a week to confess Brother Cannon's sins for him, without making any confession whatever of his own. He had indulged that spirit more or less ever since. During those trying times he was closely associated with President Cannon and he could testify that the spirit which animated Brother Cannon was a righteous and forgiving spirit, and the spirit which animated Brother Thatcher was of the evil one. Brother Thatcher undertook to control the Apostles and run things generally, and was able for a while to influence two or three of the Twelve. Brother Thatcher had come to him when Brother Cannon was in prison and declared he was going to sue Brother Cannon before the law. Such an expression from an Apostle struck him (Brother Woodruff) like a clap of thunder. But it showed the spirit Brother Thatcher was of. He told Brother Thatcher that if he carried out his threat, it would be the worst pill he ever took
in his life. The unfortunate part of it was that Brother Thatcher never repented of it.
President Snow said what President Woodruff had stated was true, and the brethren of the Twelve understood that President Woodruff had sounded the key note of Brother Thatcher's apostasy. He believed firmly that all the trouble that had come on Brother Thatcher had arisen in consequence of his spirit and conduct towards Brother Cannon. President Snow said he thought the course pursued by Brother Thatcher in the Bullion-Beck business ought to be fully exposed.
President Woodruff called attention to the fact that when Brother Cannon came out of prison, and the matter between Brother Thatcher and him was investigated, it was found that instead of Brother Cannon having anything in his possession belonging to Brother Thatcher, the latter owed Brother Cannon about $100.
President Geo[rge]. Q. Cannon said it was due to him that the idea should be corrected that there was any personal difficulty between himself and Brother Thatcher. He had nothing personally against him, and he desired the brethren present to understand this, and as far as they could, to inform others, that he might not be held in a false position.
Elder Heber J. Grant confessed that he at one time had been led by Brother Thatcher into a wrong spirit, and that Elder Erastus Snow, who at first seemed to favor Brother Thatcher's views, emphatically warned Moses Thatcher and himself (Brother Grant) that unless they repented the spirit they were of would lead them away from the quorum of the Apostles. From that very time, Brother Grant said, he had avoided being led by the spirit that was in Brother Thatcher, who he had learned to love and in whom he had placed great confidence. But, Brother Grant said, Brother Thatcher was a covenant breaker. He had solemnly agreed that 60% of the means he had invested in the Bullion-Beck Company should be dedicated to the Lord, for the use of the church under direction of the President, and he demanded that stock after the death of President Taylor, and it was through that the heirs of President Taylor had also demanded their dedicated stock, and then John Beck had demanded his. Brother Thatcher had also covenanted with the other Apostles to conform to the Word of Wisdom, but he had made a practice of breaking it openly.
Brother J. Golden Kimball stated that in a conversation with Brother Thatcher after he had declined to sign the declaration of principles, he complained that he had only had a little over an hour to consider it. To this Brother Kimball answered that the authorities of the Church had no desire to crowd him, and spoke of the kindly feeling and charity they had exhibited, whereupon Brother Thatcher became much excited, and on Brother Kimball's stating that he was now in closer touch with the First Presidency, and had a better understanding of their spirit and purpose than in times past, Brother Thatcher became very angry, and exclaimed: "I want to say to you Golden Kimball, you were furnished a blanket by the authorities of the Church to blanket your conscience, when you signed that document. For you know they have used Church influence". Brother Kimball added that some time ago his friends in Cache Valley [Utah] put his name forward as a candidate for the
Legislature, but that his candidacy was defeated through Brother Thatcher's telling the leaders of the party in that county that the authorities of the Church did not want him to go to the Legislature, and he (Brother Kimball) had since ascertained that Brother Thatcher had used their name to defeat him without their authority or knowledge.
The subject of Brother Thatcher's candidacy for the United States Senatorship was fully considered, and it was unanimously decided that it would be a calamity to have Brother Thatcher elected to that position upon the platform which he had put forth, in opposition to the Church and its discipline, and as an advocate and representative of that opposition.
President Woodruff said he knew that if the people would receive it the mind of the Lord was that we should be represented in the Senate of the United States by Brother George Q. Cannon. If this could not be effected under present political conditions, it would at any rate be wrong to support a man for that position who while professing membership in the church, was yet in hostility to its established discipline.
The brethren present were all favorable to the idea of President Cannon's representing Utah in the Upper House of Congress, but were of the opinion that this could not be effected without a positive announcement such as the Presidency did not feel inclined to make.
It was decided that every proper effort should be made to have the brethren who were elected to the Legislature to go there un pledged to any individual, and to counteract the influence that had been used by the emissaries of Moses Thatcher to bind the members of the Legislature to his support.
The following brethren were appointed to see that this was done: namely, F[ranklin]. S. Richards, C[harles]. W. Penrose, J. G[olden]. Kimball, John Henry Smith and H[eber]. J. Grant. (2)
Endnotes:
1 - Journal History; J. Golden Kimball, Diary
2 - First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve minutes
LDS History Chronology: Lorenzo Snow
Mormon History Timeline: the life of Lorenzo Snow
http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/
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